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Wishing for a Better, More Motivating "Leaderboard"


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15 October 2018 - 10:19 PM

#1

BigMac1391

    Novice Trainer

  • BigMac1391

Before I was spending time playing TCG online I was playing MLB The Show '18 Diamond Dynasty. It uses a ELO (or ELO like) rating system too, but, in my opinion, has a far more motivating leaderboard where you can clearly reach different tiers "World Series" at the top, then "Championship Series" and so on down to "Spring Training" where new players begin. The first three tiers you can only raise your rating; once you reach 400/all-star you can now gain or lose... it takes a very good winning percentage to get to World Series; then every month things reset, the top players get reset to "Wild Card" and things start again. There are also rewards associated with what tier you get into. After each match you see your revised ELO and the one of your opponent including what it was before and after. It's great when you score a big upset and damaging when you yourself are upset. 

 

All of this is motivating - you want the best rewards, you want to see your name in the higher tier, and you just want to see your rating increase. 

 

Meanwhile, over here it just seems to be the absence of all of that. As I got my deck running pretty well I could see winning streaks - I could also see my opponent quality go higher and higher; when I started playing it was common to run into decks that were just "double mach strike plus __" - now most every deck I face has a short-hand name on these boards... Buzzroc, Metagross, Zoroarak+___, Wailord, Night March, Rotom, Malamar + ____ and so on. Most carry an ace spec card, usually Computer Search. Tapu Lele GX is in nearly all. Some have little sleeves saying "regionals" etc. I won 8 games in a row last night but that's become less common. I played in a tournament and took second. I played in another tournament and won. I've gone out in the first round twice in other tournaments. 

 

To the paragraph above though, it's kind of, so what? Is this essentially what the game is now? My rating is high enough that unless I tank it it's just know that I'm in some kind of upper-middle-class tier and that's basically the end-game? When I won 8 in a row last night was I briefly part of the lower affluent? There's no way to know. Meanwhile, yes, streaks get you through the 2000 points faster but it's achievable regardless especially in Expanded where games are quick. 

 

Stated simply: are there ways I can find more motivation than just streaks and tournaments in TCG online once my opposition seems to have peaked out? The leaderboard on the web just seems to be a quantity contest. I wish that some of what MLB had was over here. But I'm new enough where maybe I just don't know where to look? 


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16 October 2018 - 06:51 PM

#2

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_

Trust me: you are not the only one. Magic, Hearthstone, Yugioh,Gwent, no matter which competitor on the CCG/TCG market you look at, all of them have a skill based leader board system.

If you look upon other multiplayer genres, no matter if its strategy, shooter,sports, etc., you'll find the same thing.

 

All multiplayer games can be enjoyed as a casual, as well as a competitive oriented player and the rewards for completing a certain ELO range are usually well received within the community.

 

For some reason Pokemon TCGO took it upon themselves to end this trend, implementing systems where you virtually can't lose and everyone gets the same. The idea of losing points is ultimately what drives people forward and what makes game meaningful, rather than just be a mindless grind to get to 2K points. I can totally understand that players would get upset if they suddenly won't be able to reach those high tier rewards, because their win rating is too low and I do believe that a skill based reward ladder would need to add a different scaling of said rewards, in order to at least enable casual players to get the useful rewards.

 

I've been campaigning for this to be implemented for years now and thus I can honestly tell: Give up hope. You can try to raise your ELO and get to high level play, but that's about it.

A cool avatar item for completing a season at a high ELO ? Nope

Exclusive sleeves, coins and boxes for participating and clearing various points within a season ? Nope

A leader board that actually reflects the top players of each region ? Nope

A motivating system that rewards players of every skill calibre ? Nope

A system that punishes uninteractive OTK decks with a 50% win rate ? Nope


The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

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16 October 2018 - 08:54 PM

#3

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

<snip>

 

A cool avatar item for completing a season at a high ELO ?

Exclusive sleeves, coins and boxes for participating and clearing various points within a season ?

A leader board that actually reflects the top players of each region ?

A motivating system that rewards players of every skill calibre ?

A system that punishes uninteractive OTK decks with a 50% win rate ?

^^  Yeah buddy.

 

There seems to be two main camps -- the casual and the competitive -- not just players, but decks as well.  I think many of us alternate between the two, and sometimes we just want to play (or test) a "fun deck," and not get stomped by the meta game.  This is a common complaint with newer players too.

 

What if they allowed us to choose when playing in VS mode? ...just for fun, or rewards?

 

In the competitive arena, this game would really take off if special rewards were added.  It would be a win/win for TPCi, and would ultimately help real-world booster sales.  What if the top spot for a season got an invite to Worlds, or other special recognition?  Can you imagine the excitement and effort that some players would put in?  It might even help someone who can't afford to travel to multiple Regionals and Internationals, like the current entrants are forced to do.  And obviously, if that player was the #1 Online ranking, they'd be good enough to compete.


Edited by RobRatt, 16 October 2018 - 09:04 PM.

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17 October 2018 - 04:51 PM

#4

BigMac1391

    Novice Trainer

  • BigMac1391

Well, that's disappointing. Y'all keep up the lobbying as community leaders is all I can say, I guess. 


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17 October 2018 - 05:34 PM

#5

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_

^^  Yeah buddy.

 

There seems to be two main camps -- the casual and the competitive -- not just players, but decks as well.  I think many of us alternate between the two, and sometimes we just want to play (or test) a "fun deck," and not get stomped by the meta game.  This is a common complaint with newer players too.

 

What if they allowed us to choose when playing in VS mode? ...just for fun, or rewards?

You mean like in any other popular TCG7CCG that usually has a casual and a competitive mode ? Are you out of your mind :P?

 

The funny thing is that looking at a game like Hearthstone, without a doubt the biggest title on the market, you'll find a perfect balance between casual and competitive players. I have friends you never reached a single digit rank, yet they play the game for years and are still having fun. Other friends of mine grind for hours upon hours and are even competing for the race to play in the big tournaments (i.e. trying to get into the top 50 spot of their respective region).

No matter how big or small your goal is, it's satisfying when you reach it and it only becomes satisfying because a lost game will set you one step back.

When I look at a new ladder in Pokemon, the only question I ask myself is: how long is it going to take to reach 2K. That's so boring and I don't feel any kind of achievement upon reaching it.

Lost a game ? Oh well, my win streak is gone but I'm still at the same spot.

Constant progression without setbacks becomes dull after a while.

 

 

In the competitive arena, this game would really take off if special rewards were added.  It would be a win/win for TPCi, and would ultimately help real-world booster sales.  What if the top spot for a season got an invite to Worlds, or other special recognition?  Can you imagine the excitement and effort that some players would put in?  It might even help someone who can't afford to travel to multiple Regionals and Internationals, like the current entrants are forced to do.  And obviously, if that player was the #1 Online ranking, they'd be good enough to compete.

If only someone had posted those ideas.... ;).

 

http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/52472-the-solution-to-almost-everything-felidae-s-magnum-opus/?hl=%2Bmagnum+%2Bopus

 

Exposure isn't something to underestimate by the way, because many of the great Pokemon TCG players also play online, but you'll hardly see them on the current “leader boards”; because they are mainly for people who grind 24/7.

Just imagine the Pokemon Champions leader board and the race to the top spots and the end of each months. Suddenly who have Ryan Sabelhaus, Chris Fulop and Jason Klaczynski, playing alongside online veterans and newcomers alike, don't tell me that doesn't sound cool.

Let's go even one step further and say that the top ranks earn points for real life TCG events ( be it the invitation to Worlds, Nationals, etc.). Suddenly you'll not only get more players to participate, but you also give players the opportunity to show their skills, who don't have a local scene near them. ( Yeah, I know the different age divisions could be difficult to handle, but I'm sure there is an way solution for that as well).


Edited by Felidae_, 17 October 2018 - 09:46 PM.

The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

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17 October 2018 - 05:52 PM

#6

WingsofFire1014

    Senior Trainer

  • WingsofFire1014
I agree with everything Felidae said. Try looking at it from a different perspective BigMac.
Try try again. Never ever quit.
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