Jump to content

Help me understand..


  • Please log in to reply

10 October 2018 - 01:57 AM

#1

Cisqoe

    Rookie Trainer

  • Cisqoe

Some back story, I came into the game with 0 knowledge about a year ago, I've never looked anything up or ever used anyone else as a reference for my deck (except for my discovery of Ace Spec, which I saw in a match and knew I needed hahaha). Now I can win a fair amount of games with my progressively developing deck. The point being, it's MINE. My creation. It's no where near perfect, in fact some times dudes (and luck) just slam dunk me. But I enjoy it, because I know this deck came from me and me alone and rarely do I see similar online.

 

So anyway, whenever i'm playing online I see the same 5-6 decks come around in cycles. Night march, infinite force, garchomp, darkrai.. ect.

Doesn't the community get sick of mimicking each others decks? What's the fun in winning if your using the same cookie cutter deck as so many other people??

I know when I play online, the most fun I have is when I vs a deck that I can just tell has been handmade by someone for them specifically. It feels so fresh with all these cards being played that no one else uses, yet it still works.

 

It honestly feels like i'm vs'ing bots whenever I come across one of the 5-6 standard decks people are using. I really don't even think they're that great, my deck holds up great against them.

 

But yeah, like I said i'm generally new so my perspective may be different to yours but what is everyone's thoughts on this? Do you have your own personalized deck, or do you google best templates or something?

 

Is it really that great winning 10+ straight with a deck that was laid out for you? Because I know for me it's super satisfying when my underdog deck gets those big win streaks on the 'best' decks i so often come across -___- z Z

 

I guess what i'm just trying to say is wouldn't the game just be so much greater if more people were more original? Bring the fun back, anyone can win with some of the decks I see but, having your own ground up creation win... that's why I play.


Edited by Cisqoe, 10 October 2018 - 02:46 AM.

  • 0

10 October 2018 - 03:25 AM

#2

XK920XK

    Veteran Trainer

  • XK920XK

i think you answered your own question here, its because people like to win and thats why players play top tier decks.

 

 

what is your deck? im pretty sure every deck in expanded has pretty much been explored by now.

 

 

if your rouge deck is holding up well against these meta decks, then im going to assume you are winning near half your games. if thats the case then im pretty sure that others have known about "your" deck or a variation of it already.


  • 1

10 October 2018 - 04:18 AM

#3

Cisqoe

    Rookie Trainer

  • Cisqoe

@XK920XK

Very true, that probably is correct but I still can't understand why so many people are like that? I don't come from a TCG background, this one somehow caught my interest despite me playing console, but I wish there was some kind of mode that promoted creativity.

Guess it's just me but I get bored of seeing the same decks reappear, despite some of them being really good to play against. I appreciate the random ones that come out every now and then and give me something different to face :) 

 

As for my deck, I don't know how to describe it. It's a mish mash of water types across random sets that I've found work well together. It'd probably get slaughtered under 'top tier' scrutiny, but for me it works and I have fun :) 

I hope there are more people like me out there :)  if there are i'd love to hear from them


  • 0

11 October 2018 - 01:57 AM

#4

SuperStone

    Elite Trainer

  • SuperStone

         It's an interesting question, isn't it?  I think most of us for whom Pokemon was our first TCG have asked that at some point.  For me personally, thinking up weird strategies has always been one of the most fun parts of the game, and while I never hated meta decks, for a very long time I simply didn't use them.

 

          But there are some very good reasons people do.  First of all, they're simply better.  No matter how much you enjoy your deck and playing the game, if you lose all the time, it gets demoralizing.  Understandably, people don't like that, and so they use stonger- objectively better- cards.  And since there are only so many top-level cards at a given time, these people's decks often look quite similar.

 

          Also, meta decks are usually more consistent, with less luck required.  This means you lose fewer games to things out of your control, and you get to actually execute your strategy more often.  And after all, executing strategies is what the game's all about, isn't it?

 

          You've also got to consider that IRL, many people play for the sake of big tournaments.  If you want to have a chance of winning one of these, you will either need to play a meta deck or a very good rogue one- so it makes sense that people would practice with both of these.  But since rogue often tries to be a surprise, many of the best players of the genre refuse to show or share their ideas online- taking a great deal of steam out of it's online presence.

 

          Another point I'd like to get at is that there's probably more variance within these decks than you can see from just one match apiece.  They tend to have very similar supporters; stadiums; and tools; as well as the main pokemon, simply for consistency reasons.  But other items, other pokemon, specific energy choices, counters, and backup strategies are often unique to a build.  In many cases, decks really only look the same and are actually completely different.

 

Hope I've helped. :)


Edited by SuperStone, 11 October 2018 - 01:58 AM.

The rest of the world must act as they see fit.  If TPCi insists on keeping the Chat canned, that is their decision.

 

But that does not stop me from opposing it.

And I will oppose it forever.

  • 2

11 October 2018 - 08:06 PM

#5

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_
I think you lack empathy towards your fellow player. This is is really common and I have been ignoring it in the past on many occasions as well, so I don't blame you.

Fun is an abstract concept and there is no true answer to the question “what part of X do you enjoy ?” You found your answer for the PTCG and so did other people. Just because ytheir answer (in this case playing meta decks) differs from your own doesn't mean that they don't enjoy themselves.

Take me as an example: I started to play MtG in 2002 and started to play tournaments in 2005. Upon watching some content on ******* I saw a video in my feed of the 2013 Pokemon World Championship. Pokemn cards ? I collected them as a child, but never gotten to play the game.
I watched the entire thing, didn't understand much (besides the overall concept), but the game looked fun so I started to play. Driven by my competitive nature I was naturally looking to play top tier decks and that has become a standard for me in every CCG/TCG title.
I think you underestimate how interesting a high level game of Pokemon TG can be.
Although it's not as deep as say MtG, I personally like Pokemon because it's a game were optimization and long term planning can increase your win rate to an almost absurd degree.

As far as originality is concerned I can understand your viewpoint to a degree. Playing against the same decks can get repetitive, but the game does suffer from the same fate as any other big card game: 80-90% of the printed cards are simply inferior to others. Sure, you can make certain decks work anyway, but for a game that is essentially just based upon raw numbers, bigger is always better. Since you are playing in Expanded though chances are good that you'll at least see some variety in the future, because the format has a pretty diverse roster of playable decks and arguably more loyalists towards certain archetypes (i.e. I still occasionally play Archie'S Blastoise and Seismitoad, even though neither deck is tier 1 at the moment, simply because they are amongst my favourite archetypes).

I've been playing a bit of Expanded lately with the best deck in the format (even though I currently lack 1-4 copies of Tropical Beach to awaken its full potential) and I definitely saw more than 5 decks (and funny enough none of the decks you mentioned).

One last thing: Getting help from others isn't any sign of weakness and neither is looking for advise on a deck-list. Net-decking isn't bad for the game and shouldn't be frowned upon, for the simple fact that not everyone can invest hours upon hours into rigorous testing and neither is everyone skilled enough to build good decks (good means competitively viable in this case, even though we obviously can argue about the definition of a “good” deck, just as we can argue about fun).
If you found something that works for you: cool. Maybe you'll get bored of it someday and start something new. Maybe you'll incorporate ideas into your new deck that you saw from someone else. Maybe you'll even run into a similar deck and hey, maybe you'll one day play a meta deck as well and still have fun.
Don't spoil other peoples fun and we won't point out that your deck just sounds like a variant of Waterbox, an archetype that used to be popular in the early days of S&M ;).

The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

  • 0

12 October 2018 - 11:32 PM

#6

Cisqoe

    Rookie Trainer

  • Cisqoe

@Felidae_

Maybe I came across wrong, I never intended to target anyone.. it was more of an observation I've found in my mere one year playing experience :) with some of my thoughts overlaid 

 

I know you're right though, it definitely does come to a more personal level and I feel like i'm surely in the minority with my stance, not that that's a problem :)

 

As for the help aspect, I totally agree and there is no shame in growing that way. Like I said, I came into this game with literally 0 knowledge, I was just using a theme water deck and gradually switched out card by card until it was completely new over time. As mentioned in my original post, I had no idea about things like Ace Spec, Prisms or even EX/GX cards so for a while I didn't even have those hahaha.

 

I guess for me I have no desire to win every single match I play, I just love those tight neck matches against all kinds of decks I see. I guess from someone who's been in the game for a while and has plenty of knowledge about the game it may be hard to see, but for me creation is the fun of it even if that means failing miserably sometimes because i'm not using a meta deck.

 

And also, I looked up a waterbox and I do share 2 Pokemon in that deck with mine. I'm glad this means I've at least identified some good cards on my own, that's where I find my fun in the game. I came from 0, still not a master, but I have a deck I made myself (even if it to others it sucks or doesn't have top tier cards in it) :) 

 

As a side note:

I played 5 games this morning

Rotom 

Infinite Force

Infinite Force

Garchomp

Garchomp

 

I just find it repetitive, would much rather something fresh but I guess that's just how the community is.


  • 0

13 October 2018 - 04:27 AM

#7

SandaledOtter

    Elite Trainer

  • SandaledOtter

As a side note:

I played 5 games this morning

Rotom 

Infinite Force

Infinite Force

Garchomp

Garchomp

 

I just find it repetitive, would much rather something fresh but I guess that's just how the community is.

My last 5 Standard Format games listing them as I play right now:

 

  1. Altaria GX (with Goomy running interference)
  2. Gardevoir GX (That'd be Infinite Force)
  3. Scizor, Kartana, A9T, and Stakataka GXs (too many singles)
  4. Reshiram GX / Salazzle GX (with Infernape on the bench)
  5. Gardevoir GX (again)

So two of them were similar decks, matching two you saw, but my Metagross GX / Solgaleo GX deck had type advantage on them. (I had a Metal challenge to do.)

40% Gardevoir in the 10 games, but it's a very small sample.

 

The Fire deck beat me, but I won the other 4. I expect I'd run into Garchomp if I kept going, but it's late.


Edited by SandaledOtter, 13 October 2018 - 04:27 AM.

"Swishonk!" That's what's happening!

  • 0