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Help with my first deck “Dogs of War” / “Paw Patrol” Ly/Lu


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25 September 2018 - 04:00 PM

#1

BigMac1391

    Rookie Trainer

  • BigMac1391
3 Riolu
3 Lucario GX
2 Rockruff
2 Lycanroc GX - Bloodyhirsty Eyes
1 Lycanroc - Twilight Rogue
2 Regirock with Enhanced Stomp
1 Buzzwole
1 Diancie
1 Zygarde with Glare and Calm Strike
1 Zygarde GX

Enhanced Hammer
Escape Rope
Evosoda
Field Blower
Max Elixir
Nest Ball
Switch
VS Seeker
2 Brooklet Hill
Bonnie
2 Cynthia
Korrina
Lady
Lysandre
Olivia
Pokémon Fan Club
2 Choice Band
1 Fighting Fury Belt
2 Muscle Band
1 Wishful Baton

4 Double Colorless Energy
4 Strong Energy
10 Basic Fighting Energy

This deck has been working pretty well but I’m sure it can be tightened up and improved. Regirock with a tool attached and Diancie and a Strong Energy is good - same for buzz hitting for 120 base with 4 oppo prize cards. Zygarde also does 120 after a GX attack has been used for a single and a double. Things I want but can’t trade for now are another Korrina, a Tapu Lele GX to fend off Gardevior GX, and maybe a Buzzwole GX though I see a lot of luminous barriers out there right now so I value my non GX attackers... I also know from reading other deck lists that I have many fewer of many more kinds of trainers than most who stack up in a shorter list... but it’s tough to part with any of this stuff... I have dumped N which cost me once against a deck that did damage based on cards in hand but which many other times didn’t help me.

Let’s hear your suggestions- thanks in advance!
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26 September 2018 - 05:44 AM

#2

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_

A while back I wrote a lenghty article dealing with deck building and common mistakes for beginners. I believe one paragrapgh there fits yor current problem:

 

[...] The most crucial part for this to work is consistency. The less cards you require to set-up, the easier it is to get the set-up in every match, gradually increasing your win rate, as you wont have to waste precious turns to start your own engine.

When it comes to trainer and supporter cards, a lot of beginners tend to run way to many situational cards.

 

"What if my Pokemon gets confused ? What if I don't draw an Energy card ? What if I discard something important ? How can I heal my Pokemon ?"

 

All of those questions usually lead to a deck that is full of 1-off cards, that will overall just clog your engine, rather than helping you.

Let's take a look at a deck list that was posted on the forums a couple of months ago:

Spoiler

As you can see, while the Pokemon line-up is quite solid, the trainer cards are all over the place. You can observe that the deck creator thought about a multitude of different scenarios and tried to incorporate an answer against everything in his deck, rather then focusing on getting his own engine to work properly in the first place.

Lets take a look at the suggestion by a fellow member on the forum:
Spoiler

As you can see, the deck looks much smoother now. At this point you can adjust certain numbers to your own likening, but the template is never the less a solid basis to work on.

That was also noted by the original creator:


"Thanks for the advice I fixed up the deck and it is preforming better now."

Alright, that about wraps it up for the first part. Next time we'll dive into the game and talk about strategy. How to approach the early, mid and late game. How to deal with Pokemon GX / EX. How to properly read your opponent and much much more. Stay tuned.

Felidae_

 

You can find the entire thing here: http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/54657-why-do-you-lose-chapter-1-%E2%80%93-the-principle-of-four/

 

The key word here is streamlining: You run cards that only help you in very specific scenarios and based on their quantity it's very unlikely that you'll even find them in due time. If you were to run 4 Korrina, than having a lot of situational trainer cards would be such a big deal, as you'd have a consistant tool to search for them.

You also run too many energy cards, which is a result of your poor draw supporter line.

When it comes to trainer cards you should always keep in mind that they are quite inexpensive (a decent bunch can be found in Theme decks), especially compared to their impact on your deck. Before you even consider trading for a Tapu Lele or additional Pokemon GX I'd strongly advice you to get a playset of the most important trainer cards for you: Max Potion, Korrina, Cynthia, N, Sycamore (you won't be playing the later as a playset each in your deck, but it's good to have them at hand anyway) as well as 2-3 copies of the rest.

 

Once you have your core trainer cards it's much easier to build new decks and experiment with fun ideas, because you already got he nessecary engine to power up any deck.


The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

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27 September 2018 - 01:05 AM

#3

BigMac1391

    Rookie Trainer

  • BigMac1391
Thank you for the reply. I read both your articles and begun making tweaks.

I did swap a Regi for Oranguru as a cheap “opponent active has lots of energy cards” policy but I don’t know- it’s trouble when Oranguru gets tagged as starting Pokémon. Already Diancie is a liability in that regard (but still it seems worth it) so perhaps this Oranguru also should be sacked under the heading of “cant worry about every scenario”. traded some utility for draw power. No new Korrina yet don’t have the trade fuel.

But the dogs are doing well in expanded- strong energy and muscle band are a big part of that- also dominating popular dark cards weak to fighting helps. No one playing Zoroark or Guzzlord or the other dark one that does damage for all attached dark energy seems to carry weakness policy so far.

Meanwhile I made a standard version - whoa, junk! Without the fighting energy and muscle band suddenly Garchomp is a huge problem. Tried Professor Kukui as a muscle substitute but it’s too inconsistent even running a lot of him. I have some fighting garchomps and I think Lycanroc is out and Garchomp is in. Then I think I would mix Lucario and GX Lucario together. I’d keep baby buzz and Regi while dropping the Zygardes....

Appreciate you taking the time to respond- thanks again.
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02 October 2018 - 02:34 PM

#4

BigMac1391

    Rookie Trainer

  • BigMac1391
Things are better still... new expanded lineup is 9-1 in last 10 and the loss was Diancie active with a brick hand

3 Riolu
3 Lucario GX
2 Rockruff
2 Lycanroc GX - Bloodyhirsty Eyes
1 Lycanroc - Twilight Rogue
1 Regirock with Enhanced Stomp
1 Buzzwole
1 Diancie
1 Zygarde GX

Enhanced Hammer
Escape Rope
Field Blower
2 Max Elixir
Switch
VS Seeker
Brooklet Hill
Bonnie
1 Lillie
4 Cynthia
3 Korrina
1 N
1 Tate and Liza
Professor Letter
Acerola
Lysandre
3 Choice Band
3 Muscle Band
Town Map

3 Double Colorless Energy
4 Strong Energy
9 Basic Fighting Energy

Edited by BigMac1391, 02 October 2018 - 02:48 PM.

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05 October 2018 - 08:42 PM

#5

BigMac1391

    Rookie Trainer

  • BigMac1391

Paw Patrol is on a roll - another seven wins in a row on the ladder and a second place tournament finish with a well-contested loss to Dawn Wings (Dawn Wings/Malamar is a tough matchup given Baby Buzz and Lucario weak to psychic). Having a blast; actually took out Necrozma/Malamar using the Lycanrocs and Zygarde GX as the attackers for the last go round. 

 

Some observations: Only carrying one N has been okay; this isn't a "comeback from behind" style deck so even when I draw him I rarely want to use him. I still have relatively lot of energy but this deck demands a lot of energy on hand too because the next attacker needs to be full power once the first one succumbs or gets Acerola-d. Acerola has been good but I don't think I have ever wished for more than one. 

 

From the last deck was able to get a 4th Korrina in and drop one choice band. Now I don't exactly know what to do next. 

1. I have enough GR packs to get the vaunted Tapu... but does it make sense when I am using Korrina to play the role of Ultra Ball? I could use Korrina to get a Nest Ball but then whatever I supporter I get from Wonder Tag would have to wait until the next turn. 

2. A Buzzwole-GX could also fit nicely into the mix, is cheaper, and of course Korrina-accessible... would help a bit joining Regi and Baby Buzz as basic hard hitters. I'm well aware of the BuzzRoc meta but I'm having too much fun keeping the dogs together; trying to get that combo as good as it can be is more interesting for me (at least right now) than just copying someone's BuzzRoc list - plus the winning percentage is already good

3. Any specific Pokes I should consider for my weakest matchups of DW Necrozma/Malamar and Sylveon/Gardevior? Won both most recent matchups but always hate to see those and/or Golisopod... it seems like you are always going to be somewhat exposed to type - I have never lost to an all dark deck for example. Maybe the promo lycanroc for the energy denial (though I am concerned about losing my baby roc who shows well against Hoopa and co.) 

4. Even more draw power? Another Tate, etc.? 

5. Something else? More elixir to stay even more "aggro"? 

 

 

3 Riolu
3 Lucario GX
2 Rockruff
2 Lycanroc GX - Bloodyhirsty Eyes
1 Lycanroc - Twilight Rogue 
1 Regirock with Enhanced Stomp
1 Buzzwole
1 Diancie
1 Zygarde GX

Enhanced Hammer
Escape Rope
Field Blower
2 Max Elixir
Switch
VS Seeker
Brooklet Hill
Bonnie
1 Lillie
4 Cynthia
4 Korrina
1 N
1 Tate and Liza 
Professor Letter
Acerola
Lysandre 
2 Choice Band
3 Muscle Band
Town Map

3 Double Colorless Energy
4 Strong Energy
9 Basic Fighting Energy 


Edited by BigMac1391, 05 October 2018 - 08:50 PM.

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05 October 2018 - 09:57 PM

#6

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay
What if you did the following Pokémon & Energy line up.

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 15

* 4 Buzzwole FLI 77
* 1 Diancie {*} FLI 74
* 3 Riolu UPR 66
* 2 Rockruff FLI 75
* 3 Lucario-GX FLI 122
* 2 Lycanroc-GX GRI 74

##Energy - 15

* 11 Fighting Energy 6
* 4 Strong Energy FCO 115

Total Cards - 30

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

Your Trainer line has serious issue.
Your playing the wrong support lines.

-Cynthia
-Tate & Liza
-Lillie

They are the best draw supporters for Standard Format.
The problem is your playing Expanded Format.

The Expanded Format has there own all star cards.

Draw Supporters:
#1 - Professor Scyamore
#2 - Professor Juniper
#3 - Colress

I think Scyamore & Juniper are tied at 1st.

However, people do something rate the way I showed above.
I think it is due to the packs the cards come in.
They think Scyamore pack is more valuable.
Or at least that is what I think.

Edited by Player_Jay, 05 October 2018 - 09:59 PM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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08 October 2018 - 08:07 PM

#7

BigMac1391

    Rookie Trainer

  • BigMac1391
Paw Patrol is now a tournament winner! Defeated BuzzRoc coming from behind in the 2nd round which felt good and then aggro-ed a fire deck in the finals *************** with Riolu on turn 1 - the opponent had a benched charmander but quit.

Thanks for the second advice post as well - here though I respectfully disagree with some of the suggestions:
- Sycamore: I have been monitoring my plays of Cynthia since the suggestion of sycamore was made and most of the time when I use Cynthia my hand is more full than empty. Also, nothing in my attack or defense besides Zygarde GX relies on the discard pile so I'd rather take 6 cards and keep my resources than discard them or have to carry more trainers to get things back from the discard pile. Still running 4 Cynthia. Still running Tate too as people love to switch Diancie up into the attacking spot (as they should) - Ultra Ball or Sophocles may be a better way to feed fighting energy to Zygarde GX but usually it gets there anyway via KO.
- Colress: I did think this was a good suggestion and have added one copy; so far I've used twice over 10+ games; one time for 7 cards and one time for 5 cards. So, okay. I think I'll keep in but when opponents see Rockruff I think they only use their bench if they really need to both for Lycanroc's GX and ability.

I will try your Pokemon lineup but haven't yet; my rationale for the ones i'd be replacing for more Baby Buzz was:
- Zygarde GX: A nice tanking basic early in game or better yet comes in after Lucario and Baby Buzz are KO'ed in which case the fighting energy is there
- Regirock: Hits for 40 instead of 30 with a single energy and tool and I run 4 Korrina to find tools plus tool copies
- Baby Lycanroc: My Ninetales Killer - those players tend to run big benches

What about 2 Baby Buzz, Big Buzz, and Baby Lycanroc?
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09 October 2018 - 01:20 PM

#8

Chasista

    Elite Trainer

  • Chasista

Interesting. Just as an easier way to write your deck once and again, you can just go to Deck manager, choose the deck and then push the button to Copy it to clipboard.

 

Just paste it after in forums. That will add also the sets and number of cards, to make it easy to know if a Rockruff is from GRi or FLi or a Lucario is from BUS or UPR. Of course we know what's the good one but just in case, not everyone know all the cards.

 

Also that allows to just we can copy the list and make the deck online (a lot of times I do it to check a deck more than just in mind).

 

Glad is working better little by little.


Edited by Chasista, 09 October 2018 - 01:21 PM.

WE WANT LEGACY TOURNAMENTS BACK !!! If you also want it, show your support http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/55966-feedback-making-it-easier-to-get-the-cards-you-want/

5th day reward packs list http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/56679-5th-day-log-in-pack-is-random-got-a-gur-dd/?p=593037

Foro en español, también existe: http://forums.pokemontcg.com/forum/2-español/

IGN Chasista

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09 October 2018 - 04:21 PM

#9

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_

Sycamore / Juniper have been to dominant draw supporters ever since they were printed, yet they aren't loved by new players. In fact in the deck building guide I state that I don't agree with the general beginners tip to add 4 N and 4 Sycamore to every deck (note that Cynthia wasn't printed back then).

 

The biggest strength of Sycamore is also the reason why a lot of beginners should stay away from the card at the beginning of their journey: redundancy.

Out of the 60 cards in your deck you only need a fraction to win the game. Unless a deck runs specific tutor engines, most builds are rather streamlined, with an occasional tech card added into the mix here and there. The re-print of VS Seeker also popularized the use of situational supporters, as it became much easier to have them ready at the deciding moment.

Discarding resources isn't that big of a deal for most decks, because cards in this game quite literally come by the dozens and throwing away key pieces for a fresh pair of cards is the best option is almost every scenario.

 

Remember what I said in the first post: The biggest mistake beginners constantly make is to add too many situational cards and then being too afraid to lose them.

 

That being said, fighting decks in Expanded have the benefit of Korrina, the best type based supporter in the game (I don't know much about the pre DP era, do IDK if they printed anything like it in the past). Naturally Korrina makes it much easier to run a bunch of 1-off tech cards, as you got yourself the perfect tutor for them.

 

I'd thus advise you to find yourself 3 more copies of VS Seeker, which allow you to chain Korrina for the first turns of the game with ease (if you have to) and will overall increase the consistency of your deck (being able to use Lysandre over and over isn't to bad either – not that important with Lycaroc, but you also got Acerola, N,..., yout get the idea).

 

For future decks (pref. Non fighting ones) I'd then try to really streamline your deck and to utilize the draw power of Sycamore. It will be a bit odd in the beginning, especially if you are used to the controlled draw support of Korrina, but with some practice you'll soon fall in love with Juniper/Sycamore (take your pick, we don't judge ;) ).


The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

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10 October 2018 - 09:33 PM

#10

BigMac1391

    Rookie Trainer

  • BigMac1391
Yeah- in fact even before coming back to read these new replies I have a second copy of VS Seeker going. Wasn’t sure about going all the way to 4 since my discard is light in early turns.

The other big change is that I dropped an energy and an elixir and added Big Buzz plus Beast Ring. This has added some resilience against Gardevior either by hitting the basics on the bench or OHKO mid game after a Lucario is KO.

As my expanded ELO has gone up some decks are kryptonite though I am dead against and are appearing more often:
- Rotom, battle compressor- no ability locking, no way to get cards from opponents discard - unless they brick I lose every time to this one
- Wailord - cannot OHKO except with GX attacks and deck out - got five prize cards once but still decked out

Now there are cards that help with each of those- but it seems that to run Garbotoxin or a 250k hitter would be getting away from.the “do one thing well” philosophy. After all some decks that do one thing well are dominated by my deck due to fighting weakness- so it feels like more of “well, you can’t win them all” rather than trying to hit hard early with Diancie and choice/muscle and strong energy AND also being able to lock abilities AND being able to carry Wailord insurance. Right thinking?

I will say that with Big Buzz on board Wishiwashi is drawing dead now so that’s nice...

I am thinking for standard of making a Gardevior/Sylveon deck... mainly since I have those cards... maybe new thread soon on that. But boy there’s so much fun hitting for 190 with all of the boosts in Lucario GX...
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