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Naganadel GX Metal Beatbox (post-Rotation)


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05 August 2018 - 03:44 PM

#1

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

First draft of a potential metal beast box for Naganadel GX, it goes the price denying route, up till now I have beaten Gardevoir GX, Greninja GX/Glaceon GX and more importantly Ultra Necrozma.

 

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
 
##Pokémon - 16
 
* 1 Xurkitree-GX UPR 142
* 1 Celesteela CES 100
* 1 Celesteela-GX UPR 144
* 2 Dusk Mane Necrozma PR-SM SM124
* 1 Kartana-GX CIN 70
* 2 Stakataka-GX CES 102
* 4 Poipole FLI 55
* 1 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
* 3 Naganadel-GX FLI 56
 
##Trainer Cards - 33
 
* 4 Mysterious Treasure FLI 113
* 1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 3 Acerola BUS 112
* 1 Pal Pad UPR 132
* 3 Choice Band GRI 121
* 1 Pokémon Fan Club UPR 133
* 3 Tate & Liza CES 148
* 2 Copycat HS 90
* 3 Cynthia UPR 119
* 3 Guzma BUS 115
* 1 Field Blower GRI 125
* 3 Ultra Space FLI 115
* 2 Beast Ring FLI 102
* 3 Max Potion GRI 128
 
##Energy - 11
 
* 1 Beast Energy {*} FLI 117
* 8 Metal Energy XYEnergy 7
* 2 Unit Energy {L}{P}{M} UPR 138
 
Total Cards - 60
 
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
 
Still on the hunt for a third Stakataka, so I might take Celesteela or Xurkitree out... The supporter line needs some work, but I think it's pretty decent as it is. 

Edited by xXTheStalkXx, 05 August 2018 - 03:45 PM.

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06 August 2018 - 01:08 AM

#2

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay
I think you need 2nd Poke Fan Club incase 1 is prized.
I think you will need some Scoop Up’s to remove the Lele.

Acerola requires Damage on Lele in order to pick up.
It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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06 August 2018 - 02:21 AM

#3

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

I think you need 2nd Poke Fan Club incase 1 is prized.
I think you will need some Scoop Up’s to remove the Lele.

Acerola requires Damage on Lele in order to pick up.

 

Actually I was thinking about cutting PFC from the deck... I barely ever use it unless it is in my opening hand, the deck has been surprisingly consistent without it (thanks to Ultra Space)... My potential replacements are another Ultra Beast (Celesteela GX in again? trying the new Kartana just for fun? a second Kartana GX?.. Don't know yet), Beast Ball (I don't think so... It's not that reliable, in the late game, specially) or another Ultra Space. I was thinking of Dunsparce, but... Meh, I don't think it fits the deck, and sacrificing yet another 20 damage... Not great. 

 

And Lele is no that great of a liability, as long as there is a Choice Band on Naganadel you're still 2HKO'ing everything (except Metagross GX and Solgaleo GX), and adding a flippy card just to get it off when is not hurting the damage output that much... Not a fan, specially when the deck space is so tight. 

Also, I don't bench it as often, just when I really need to (another reason against PFC, it requires me to bench Lele every game).

 

Of course this are all early impressions, the one about PFC's usefulness specially, this might change with more testing. 


Edited by xXTheStalkXx, 06 August 2018 - 02:28 AM.

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06 August 2018 - 09:20 PM

#4

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay
If your setting up great with out PFC, I say cut it for sure!
Its main purpose is to set up turn 1.
I think PFC becomes useless at later stages.

I’m not a huge fan of a few of your Pokémon.
-Xurkitree GX
-Celesteela GX
-Dusk Mane Necro.

However, I think you said you was testing with them.
How have they been doing for you?

——————————————

A separate thing is about the Scoop Ups.
They are a flip coin which really sucks.
However, I like them for this deck.

Your deck is a very good stall that can deny prize cards.
Your running Max Potion & Acerola.
Scoop Up is item which helps you pick up with out having to waste your supporter for turn.
It fits in line with what your deck is trying to do.

——————————————

The last thing I want to ask you is about your board.
What is your ideal set up?

-Nagandel GX in active is probably a given.
However, what about your bench?

Do you feel like 2 Stakaka’s on your bench is enough?
Or do you think 3-4 Stakaka would be more ideal?

Edited by Player_Jay, 06 August 2018 - 09:21 PM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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07 August 2018 - 12:42 AM

#5

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

If your setting up great with out PFC, I say cut it for sure!
Its main purpose is to set up turn 1.
I think PFC becomes useless at later stages.

I’m not a huge fan of a few of your Pokémon.
-Xurkitree GX
-Celesteela GX
-Dusk Mane Necro.

However, I think you said you was testing with them.
How have they been doing for you?


I cut Celesteela GX when I got the third Staka, it really was a suboptimal option, Stakataka has a better GX and a slightly worst main attack but for one less energy. 
 
Xurkitree GX and Dusk Mane can win you games (given the right circumstances, of course). 
In a special energy heavy match up (Zoroark says hello), the Tree can help you stall if you need to or get you back in the game with the GX (you usually want Staka's GX though... It's the best one in the deck), it can attack too, having three sources of lightning energy in there, but realistically, you never go that route, it's slow, they're all special energies.
Dusk Mane comes in when my opponents try to deny prices by hiding their damaged GX's in the bench, sniping for 60 is pretty decent, specially when you consider 150 damage from Naganadel + 60 from Dusk Mane KO most things, it also puts some early pressure on Leles and the occasional Manaphy.   
 

——————————————

A separate thing is about the Scoop Ups.
They are a flip coin which really sucks.
However, I like them for this deck.

Your deck is a very good stall that can deny prize cards.
Your running Max Potion & Acerola.
Scoop Up is item which helps you pick up with out having to waste your supporter for turn.
It fits in line with what your deck is trying to do.


Yes, it kind of fits the deck but it has two major setbacks in my mind, one you mentioned, it is flippy, meaning some games I may really need to heal a damaged attacker and deny, lets say, my opponents two last prices, Max Potion and Acerola allow me to do that 100% of the times, Scoop will not... I'd rather play max copies of Acerola and MaxPo (or both). The other problem I have is... What do I cut from the deck? As I said, space is tight... If I cut something out I would like the card I'm replacing it with to make an impact every time I play it, Scoop doesn't offer that in this particular deck (at least to me). 
 

——————————————

The last thing I want to ask you is about your board.
What is your ideal set up?

-Nagandel GX in active is probably a given.
However, what about your bench?

Do you feel like 2 Stakaka’s on your bench is enough?
Or do you think 3-4 Stakaka would be more ideal?

 
The set up I have been most successful with is Naganadel in the active (obviously), one Poipole/Naganadel and two Stakas. The last two slots are for techs or backups. 
I have been able to mess with people's math using two Stakas, you can go up to three if you want... Four, though... That's pushing it, as a toolbox you want to have answers to most match ups but if you fill up your bench with Stakas your flexibility goes down the toilet.


Edited by xXTheStalkXx, 07 August 2018 - 12:44 AM.

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07 August 2018 - 08:16 AM

#6

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay
Yeah, I faced a player using a Nagandel/Stakaka Deck.
The person had 4 Stakaka on Bench + 1 Nagandel on Bench.
The active Pokémon was Nagandel.

I lost the fight.
I didn’t draw any support cards.
However, I felt very disgusted with the loss.

I felt like the player was playing poorly.
I also felt like the players deck was designed poorly.
Than I lost to them which was rather disgusting.

I was thinking the ideal board was like you mentioned.
I think your statement is confirmation.

I don’t see how putting 4x Staka on your bench is ideal.
The guy I faced did it though.
I was puzzled.

I wasn’t even thinking of using 4x Staka in the Deck.
I was thinking 3x best incase 1 is prized.
Than put 2 on bench.

Edited by Player_Jay, 07 August 2018 - 08:20 AM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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07 August 2018 - 01:02 PM

#7

SuperStone

    Elite Trainer

  • SuperStone

I'm not sure that stakataka will see much more success than, say, hard charm, honestly.  Sure, it affects all you pokemon, but it just doesn't do enough, you know?  If your deck could also find a way to slow the game down to a 3H-KO competition, then it would be worth it, but there are so many attacks this just won't affect.

 

However, I encourage you to prove me wrong.  :) I like weird decks succeeding.


Edited by SuperStone, 07 August 2018 - 01:03 PM.

The rest of the world must act as they see fit.  If TPCi insists on keeping the Chat canned, that is their decision.

 

But that does not stop me from opposing it.

And I will oppose it forever.

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07 August 2018 - 10:20 PM

#8

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

Yeah, I faced a player using a Nagandel/Stakaka Deck.
The person had 4 Stakaka on Bench + 1 Nagandel on Bench.
The active Pokémon was Nagandel.

I lost the fight.
I didn’t draw any support cards.
However, I felt very disgusted with the loss.

I felt like the player was playing poorly.
I also felt like the players deck was designed poorly.
Than I lost to them which was rather disgusting.

I was thinking the ideal board was like you mentioned.
I think your statement is confirmation.

I don’t see how putting 4x Staka on your bench is ideal.
The guy I faced did it though.
I was puzzled.

I wasn’t even thinking of using 4x Staka in the Deck.
I was thinking 3x best incase 1 is prized.
Than put 2 on bench.

 

Yeah, I've seen people going full Staka benching the four, I've also seen a couple Ray players deck themselves out... It's normal at this stage, we are all learning those new decks, looking for the perfect build and set up. 

 

I'm not sure that stakataka will see much more success than, say, hard charm, honestly.  Sure, it affects all you pokemon, but it just doesn't do enough, you know?  If your deck could also find a way to slow the game down to a 3H-KO competition, then it would be worth it, but there are so many attacks this just won't affect.

 

However, I encourage you to prove me wrong.  :) I like weird decks succeeding.

 

Yeah, I know a lot of people don't think Staka is good enough... I was very exited about it before release, now that I have it, it has been performing slightly worst than I anticipated (specially because I really underestimated Ray, I knew it would be able to do massive damage, but never though it could set up THAT fast and obliterate everything) however, my testing makes me hold my expectations high for the Ultra Beasts (guess this is my new pet deck). 

 

Hope my optimism pays off and we, Naganadel/Staka players, can prove you wrong, hopefully in the upcoming Worlds, I know there are some people brewing it in this format with hopes to bring it, if it gets even near the top, I'll be more than happy. 


Edited by xXTheStalkXx, 07 August 2018 - 10:22 PM.

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08 August 2018 - 01:15 AM

#9

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay

Yeah, I've seen people going full Staka benching the four, I've also seen a couple Ray players deck themselves out... It's normal at this stage, we are all learning those new decks, looking for the perfect build and set up. 


Indeed!
We are all still learning the nuisance of the deck.
Maybe, Players are using 4x Stakaka on bench to deal Rayquaza decks?

Nagandel GX has 210 HP
Rayquaza would need 7 energies.
If 1 Staka is on your bench, They would need 8 energies.
If 4 Staka is on your bench, They would need 9 energies.
The 4th one would give you the extra buff.

Yeah, I know a lot of people don't think Staka is good enough... I was very exited about it before release, now that I have it, it has been performing slightly worst than I anticipated (specially because I really underestimated Ray, I knew it would be able to do massive damage, but never though it could set up THAT fast and obliterate everything) however, my testing makes me hold my expectations high for the Ultra Beasts (guess this is my new pet deck). 
 
Hope my optimism pays off and we, Naganadel/Staka players, can prove you wrong, hopefully in the upcoming Worlds, I know there are some people brewing it in this format with hopes to bring it, if it gets even near the top, I'll be more than happy.


Don’t get to discouraged!
The Rotation isn’t until September.
I do believe the Ray decks will lose some set up speed after rotation.
It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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08 August 2018 - 03:16 AM

#10

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

Maybe, maybe not... I mean, Ray can get 9 energies on the board faster than you can get 4 Stakas, at least in my build and most I've seen... 

 

And of course not, as I said, this is my new pet deck and my hopes are still high, specially after rotation.


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