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Delphox/Gardivoir GX


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29 July 2018 - 10:09 PM

#1

Devxioa

    Novice Trainer

  • Devxioa
3 delphox fates collide
3 braixen fates collide
3 fennekin fates collide
3 Gardevoir GX burning shadows
3 Kirlia burning shadows
3 ralts burning shadows
2 Lele GX Guardians rising
1 Furfrou forbidden light
TOTAL: 21 POKEMON
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30 July 2018 - 06:15 AM

#2

gunmetal

    Trainer

  • gunmetal
Only 9 basics in your whole deck ? Your gonna end up giving your opponent some large opening hands and they will clog up your hand when you don't need them you need to reduce the stage 2 line from a 3-3-3 to a 3-1-3 for 4 rare candies if you didn't already have them and if you do then you have 4 on empty slots for more important tech cards like Octillery or zoroark-gx for draw support

Edited by gunmetal, 30 July 2018 - 06:20 AM.

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30 July 2018 - 04:01 PM

#3

Devxioa

    Novice Trainer

  • Devxioa
Rare candy's are just terrible. Gardevoir can easily use its ability with either gardevoir or delphox. Zoroark is just plain bad because you will run out of cards in your deck and octillery is rotating and Furfrou can easily does 1 energy for 20 damage and draws cards until you have 5 in your hand. The only downside is that it is not a ability. I wish that this deck made world's
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30 July 2018 - 05:15 PM

#4

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_



Rare candy's are just terrible. Gardevoir can easily use its ability with either gardevoir or delphox. Zoroark is just plain bad because you will run out of cards in your deck and octillery is rotating and Furfrou can easily does 1 energy for 20 damage and draws cards until you have 5 in your hand. The only downside is that it is not a ability. I wish that this deck made world's


You didn't post a deck though. You posted two ****** 3-3-3 line, which no one would use in a competitive deck.

If you believe that Rare Candy is terrible, even though pretty much every successful stage 2 deck uses the card, then quite frankly the problem is on your end.

Zoroark being plain bad ? Yeah, sure.



Post your entire deck and I'm quite certain we'll find a problem with your Trainer and Supporter cards, which leads to your assumptions about Candy, Zoroark and so forth.


Edited by Felidae_, 30 July 2018 - 05:16 PM.

The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

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30 July 2018 - 06:13 PM

#5

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

Rare candy's are just terrible. Gardevoir can easily use its ability with either gardevoir or delphox. Zoroark is just plain bad because you will run out of cards in your deck and octillery is rotating and Furfrou can easily does 1 energy for 20 damage and draws cards until you have 5 in your hand. The only downside is that it is not a ability. I wish that this deck made world's

 

If this is bait, OK, I'll bite... If not, then... 

 

There is something called card advantage, it is crucial in almost every TCG/CCG you can think of. It basically means that the person who draws the most cards has the best chances to win. This reason you gave to say Zoroark is plain bad is actually why most (all) people thinks it is one of the best cards in the format, every deck should be build with an specific plan in mind and Zoroark allows you to dig deep through your deck and find the cards you need to execute that plan, not to mention it feeds your discards (sometimes you want that). If you deck out is because your playing it incorrectly (drawing cards just for the sake of doing so is not a good idea) or you're not paying attention to your remaining cards (you have to be aware of your deck when you play draw intensive strategies like Zoroark or Night March). 

 

And I fail to see why skipping one stage in a deck that relies on stage two is that bad... You get your heavy hitters on the table faster, what's not to like there? 


Edited by xXTheStalkXx, 30 July 2018 - 06:17 PM.

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31 July 2018 - 09:25 PM

#6

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay

3 delphox fates collide
3 braixen fates collide
3 fennekin fates collide
3 Gardevoir GX burning shadows
3 Kirlia burning shadows
3 ralts burning shadows
2 Lele GX Guardians rising
1 Furfrou forbidden light
TOTAL: 21 POKEMON

My guess is your trying to play a Gardevior deck.

-The problem you are having is Gardevior has weakness against Metal Pokémon.
You decide to add in Delphox(Fire Pokémon) to help counter most Metal Pokémon(Metagross).

-You added in Tapu Lele to help set up your turn 1 board with Brigette.

-You added in Furfou as a reflexable opener Pokémon.
Ralts & Fennekin are not that great as openers.

——————————————————————————————————

You have a very logical & well thought out Pokémon line up.

You have 2 very big problems, though.
1- Your Deck isn’t helping Gardevior’s main handicap.
2- Your Deck is very inconsistent.

1- Gardevior main handicap is that it is Stage 2.
Your opponent can pick off your baby Pokémon before they ever evolve.
You see a Stage 2 deck like yours would do a lot better if it ran 4x Rare Candy + 2x Alolah Vulpix.
Alolah Vulpix would basically replace Furfou.
Alolah Vulpix can search out 2 of your Pokémon.
This would allow you the ability to set up faster.

Furfou is hit or miss!
However, Vulpix is accurate!

2- Your Deck has total of 21 Pokémon.

It is a very high unreasonable deck #.
All your doing is making your deck less consistent.

In fact, I think you could get rid of Delphox completely!
You could replace all 9 of those Pokémon with 2-3x Chaziard EX.
You could use Chariard EX first Attack as a weakness counter to Metal Decks.

Charizard EX first Attack is 3 Colorless for 60 Damage.
When you factor in a Choice Band, Your Charizard EX can hit for 180 Weakness Damage.
Charizard EX is a Basic Pokémon with no set up time.
Charizard EX is dealing a good chunk of damage with hardly any effort!

In addition, you free up to 6-7 deck slots.
The new free slots can be used to increase your Gardevior line making it more consistent.
Or
You can use those slots for more Trainers helping you, yet again be more consistent.

Edited by Player_Jay, 31 July 2018 - 09:25 PM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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01 August 2018 - 01:16 AM

#7

SuperStone

    Elite Trainer

  • SuperStone

-snip-

I appreciate your restraint. :)

 

Only 9 basics in your whole deck ? Your gonna end up giving your opponent some large opening hands and they will clog up your hand when you don't need them you need to reduce the stage 2 line from a 3-3-3 to a 3-1-3 for 4 rare candies if you didn't already have them and if you do then you have 4 on empty slots for more important tech cards like Octillery or zoroark-gx for draw support

I'm less worried about the low basics count than the large Delphox line.  It's an amazing attacker, but charging up three will be very difficult, expecially if you're also using candies for Garde.

 

 

Rare candy's are just terrible. Gardevoir can easily use its ability with either gardevoir or delphox. Zoroark is just plain bad because you will run out of cards in your deck and octillery is rotating and Furfrou can easily does 1 energy for 20 damage and draws cards until you have 5 in your hand. The only downside is that it is not a ability. I wish that this deck made world's

I personally think candy are really good.  They can effectively buy you a turn, and when you have as many evolution lines as you do, simply having more ways to get them out helps your stats.  Now, on furfrou.  It's a pretty nice attack.  But the reason other people suggested Octillery or the extremely expensive Zoro is that they use abilities- which means that you can draw and use a big damage attack in the same turn.  I'd suggest getting some octopodes- I could trade you some if you want.

 

 

-snip-

I'm not sure what to say to recommending Charizard-EX. :P


The rest of the world must act as they see fit.  If TPCi insists on keeping the Chat canned, that is their decision.

 

But that does not stop me from opposing it.

And I will oppose it forever.

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01 August 2018 - 01:51 AM

#8

Pokegen85

    Trainer

  • Pokegen85

Rare candy's are just terrible.


Okay, what's so terrible about them? Let's weigh the pro's and con's shall we?



Pro #1: You get to evolve your basic Pokemon into a stage two Pokemon one turn faster than relying on a stage one to make that bridge instead.



Pro #2: Unlike stage one Pokemon which only fit into a specific evolution chain, rare candies are flexible. I can use them to evolve my Beldum into Metagross or my Cosmog into Solgaleo instead of having to wait on a specific card to surface.



Pro #3: You can drastically cut the number of Pokemon down in your deck to make room for much needed trainers. Or you can use the empty space to add in draw support. Adding in cards that can be more useful than a stage one is always a plus.



Con #1: Taking my Beldum to the dentist on a regular basis gets really expensive. Don't get me started on having to deal with Cosmog when its on a sugar rush - the little guy just keeps zooming around and won't stop shreiking!



Since there are two more Pro's than Con's, I highly suggest giving this card a try. You might even see your win streak number starting to creep up!


Edited by Pokegen85, 01 August 2018 - 01:55 AM.

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01 August 2018 - 02:21 AM

#9

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi
Rare candy and Zoroark GX bad? That's a first....
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02 August 2018 - 04:12 AM

#10

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay

I'm not sure what to say to recommending Charizard-EX. :P

There isn’t anything worth saying to be honest.

3-3-3 Line for Delphox

VS.

1 or 2 Line for Charizard EX

You are saving 7-8 deck slots for a Coverage Pokémon.
I have seen several Gardevior deck list with out any Coverage Pokémon.

Edited by Player_Jay, 02 August 2018 - 04:14 AM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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02 August 2018 - 04:53 AM

#11

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi

There isn’t anything worth saying to be honest.
3-3-3 Line for Delphox
VS.
1 or 2 Line for Charizard EX
You are saving 7-8 deck slots for a Coverage Pokémon.
I have seen several Gardevior deck list with out any Coverage Pokémon.

Without fire energy, Zard hits for 180 damage against metal.

Metagross has 250 HP. Solgaleo has 250 HP. Dusk Mane has 190 HP (lol).

Meanwhile, Metagross and Solgaleo can Max Potion away your damage and OHKO Zard in return. Where's your goddess now?

Edited by BowserLuigi, 02 August 2018 - 04:54 AM.

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02 August 2018 - 05:17 AM

#12

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

There isn’t anything worth saying to be honest.

3-3-3 Line for Delphox

VS.

1 or 2 Line for Charizard EX

You are saving 7-8 deck slots for a Coverage Pokémon.
I have seen several Gardevior deck list with out any Coverage Pokémon.

 

In addition to BowserLuigi's remarks Charizard cant even 1HKO commonly used non GX metal attackers and supporters, Magnezone survives, so does Solgaleo prism, it can't even put out Registeel... 

 

If he's so worried about countering metal he's better of playing some Weakness Policies than giving away two free prices. 


Edited by xXTheStalkXx, 02 August 2018 - 05:19 AM.

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02 August 2018 - 05:55 AM

#13

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay

Without fire energy, Zard hits for 180 damage against metal.
Metagross has 250 HP. Solgaleo has 250 HP. Dusk Mane has 190 HP (lol).
Meanwhile, Metagross and Solgaleo can Max Potion away your damage and OHKO Zard in return. Where's your goddess now?

180 Damage is the bare minimum with the littlest effort invested.

The OP is using 9 slots for a 3-3-3 Delphox Line.
You could add in 2x Zard + 4x Rainbow Energy and still have 3 slots to spare.
You could hit for 300 Damage if you really wanted too.
I don’t think it is necessary.

I think the bare minimum or nothing at all is best!
Most of the Gardevior decks I saw don’t run any Fire Pokémon Counters.
Most of the Gardevior decks I saw don’t run any Weakness Policy.
Most of the Gardevior decks I saw don’t care about the Metal Weakness.

Most of them pair Gardevior with TalonFlame or Sylveon.

Edited by Player_Jay, 02 August 2018 - 06:03 AM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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02 August 2018 - 06:26 AM

#14

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi

180 Damage is the bare minimum with the littlest effort invested.
The OP is using 9 slots for a 3-3-3 Delphox Line.
You could add in 2x Zard + 4x Rainbow Energy and still have 3 slots to spare.
You could hit for 300 Damage if you really wanted too.
I don’t think it is necessary.
I think the bare minimum or nothing at all is best!
Most of the Gardevior decks I saw don’t run any Fire Pokémon Counters.
Most of the Gardevior decks I saw don’t run any Weakness Policy.
Most of the Gardevior decks I saw don’t care about the Metal Weakness.
Most of them pair Gardevior with TalonFlame or Sylveon.

Except that 180 damage just isn't enough. It fails to OHKO more commonly-played metal GXes (unless you count Dialga which is really just a tech), and they can easily OHKO in return. Many commonly-played non-GX metals also cannot be OHKOed.

Combustion Blast takes at least 3 turns to charge up. Horribly inefficient. So yes it isn't necessary.

You're right that TC shouldn't really play Delphox with Garde, as 2 stage 2s in the same deck do have their inherent consistency issues. There isn't even any suitable metal counter for Garde, so it's not like they can even afford to care if they wanted to (choice band is needed to secure OHKOes). But including Zard EX is not the answer. Even weakness policy is a better idea and very few, if any, even play that because Solgaleo and Dusk Mane OHKOes anyway, and Metagross has declined in usage so it's not worth considering anymore.

But if TC wants to play Delphox/Garde, hey didn't say it couldn't work.

Edited by BowserLuigi, 02 August 2018 - 06:30 AM.

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02 August 2018 - 03:01 PM

#15

SuperStone

    Elite Trainer

  • SuperStone

I think you're missing the point, PlayerJay.  Delphox isn't there because it counters metal.  Delphox is there because it does huge damage and has amazing synchrony with Garde.  The only trouble, as pointed out, is it's a second stage 2.  The fact that candies are already being run makes it easier to get out than in a straight fox build, but it's just bound to be inconsistent.  However, I've seen decks that ran a 1-0-1 line, which I think could actually be good in some situations.  As it only costs 3 cards (you'll want an extra candy), it's much more efficient than the OPs current build, and much stronger than a Charizard, plus only giving one prize.

 

Whether or not it's actually a competitive choice is, of course, another matter entirely.  But I think it's got some pretty good potential.


The rest of the world must act as they see fit.  If TPCi insists on keeping the Chat canned, that is their decision.

 

But that does not stop me from opposing it.

And I will oppose it forever.

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02 August 2018 - 03:56 PM

#16

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay

Except that 180 damage just isn't enough. It fails to OHKO more commonly-played metal GXes (unless you count Dialga which is really just a tech), and they can easily OHKO in return. Many commonly-played non-GX metals also cannot be OHKOed.
Combustion Blast takes at least 3 turns to charge up. Horribly inefficient. So yes it isn't necessary.
You're right that TC shouldn't really play Delphox with Garde, as 2 stage 2s in the same deck do have their inherent consistency issues. There isn't even any suitable metal counter for Garde, so it's not like they can even afford to care if they wanted to (choice band is needed to secure OHKOes). But including Zard EX is not the answer. Even weakness policy is a better idea and very few, if any, even play that because Solgaleo and Dusk Mane OHKOes anyway, and Metagross has declined in usage so it's not worth considering anymore.
But if TC wants to play Delphox/Garde, hey didn't say it couldn't work.


I think Delphox is terrible.

I looked through all the Fire Pokémon in the game.
The only Fire Counter that is Colorless with a decent attack is Charizard EX.
Charizard EX may not 1 shot a few of the higher Metal HP Pokémon.
However, I think Charizard is far better than Delphox.

In addition, I feel you are unvaluing Charizard completely!
I think you are getting to wrapped up in the damage #’s to truthly see the brilliance of Zard.

-Zard can still 1 shot Pokémon like Dialga GX.
-Zard can still 1 shot all the Pre-evolution Basic & Stage 1 Metal Pokémon leading up to Metagross & Sol.
-Zard can still set up faster because it is a Basic Pokémon.
-Zard presence on the board can pressure the opponent + the opponents Metal Pokémon.
And at the very least Zard is a 2 shot OTK on them!
-Zard can pick off some of the Baby Metal Pokémon to take prize cards that Delphox otherwise wouldn’t.

Delphox & Gard are both stage 2.
The Pre-evolution forms of both Pokémon are non-threatening.
This allows Metagross & Solgaelo decks a free hand in evolving there Pokémon.

The OP is running a Fire Counter.
I think Zard is best counter for the job.
Delphox is to slow.
Weakness Policy is in conflict with Choice Band.
It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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02 August 2018 - 04:23 PM

#17

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay

In addition to BowserLuigi's remarks Charizard cant even 1HKO commonly used non GX metal attackers and supporters, Magnezone survives, so does Solgaleo prism, it can't even put out Registeel... 
 
If he's so worried about countering metal he's better of playing some Weakness Policies than giving away two free prices.


Weakness Policie is the worst recommendation out of all the recommendations.
I think you should change your name to “SMALLS”.
The reason why is because your killing me SMALLS.

I’m in complete shock right now.
Where did you come up with the idea that Weakness Policy is better?
If we was to show a time line going from best suggest to worst suggestions, it would look like the below time line.

No Fire Counters > Charizard > Delphox > Weakness Policy

Running no Fire Pokémon would be best.
Running Weakness Policy would be worst.
It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
  • -2

02 August 2018 - 06:20 PM

#18

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi
I mean, I suppose you can continue to argue on Delphox vs Zard in a Garde deck (personally I haven't seen either one in a Garde deck before). One at least OHKOes everything. Doesn't have to specifically be metal. But it is a stage 2 ina deck with another stage 2 line. The other...OHKOes baby metals, Dialga GX and... useless against anything not weak to fire, and is still suboptimal against metal.

Neither options looked appealing. But honestly if I had to choose I would personally go with Delphox, since there doesn't seemed to be an ACTUAL reason why you would include Zard at all. At least with Delphox you can at least OHKO metagross and solgaleo which garde struggles to do by herself. But if you argue on being able to kill baby metals then why not just play Sylveon GX which can do the same thing (also OHKOes Cosmoem btw), and 2HKOes Metagross and Solgaleo with Choice Band (even though Sylveon and by extension Charizard's gonna get blown up in the process anyway).
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03 August 2018 - 03:24 AM

#19

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

Weakness Policie is the worst recommendation out of all the recommendations.
I think you should change your name to “SMALLS”.
The reason why is because your killing me SMALLS.

I’m in complete shock right now.
Where did you come up with the idea that Weakness Policy is better?
If we was to show a time line going from best suggest to worst suggestions, it would look like the below time line.

No Fire Counters > Charizard > Delphox > Weakness Policy

Running no Fire Pokémon would be best.
Running Weakness Policy would be worst.

 

Suuuuuure... Whatever you say, because we all know  that giving away two free prices to your opponent for a Pokémon that can't even 1HKO anything other than baby Pokémon when it's hitting for weakness and takes at least two turns to charge, not to mention it also wastes a bench space, is better than a tool. 

 

And actually it should be like:

 

No Fire Counters > Delphox > Weakness Policy > Surrendering on your very first turn > Teching Naganadel GX and use only Jet Needle > Playing a Gyarados GX deck > Even considering the idea of playing Charizard EX


Edited by xXTheStalkXx, 03 August 2018 - 05:02 AM.

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03 August 2018 - 04:14 PM

#20

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay

Suuuuuure... Whatever you say, because we all know that giving away two free prices to your opponent for a Pokémon that can't even 1HKO anything other than baby Pokémon when it's hitting for weakness and takes at least two turns to charge, not to mention it also wastes a bench space, is better than a tool.

And actually it should be like:

No Fire Counters > Delphox > Weakness Policy > Surrendering on your very first turn > Teching Naganadel GX and use only Jet Needle > Playing a Gyarados GX deck > Even considering the idea of playing Charizard EX

Charizard can OTK Diagla GX.
Charizard can OTK all pre-evolution Metal Pokémon for weakness Damage.
Charizard can 2 shot all the High HP Metal Pokémon.

In addition, Charizard’s first Attack does 60 Damage.
Charizard can kill all types of Baby Pokémon not exclusively Metal.
Charizard can kill a Zorua for example.
Charizard is useful vs all sorts of decks not exclusively metal decks.

Next, You think a Tool (Weakness Policy) is better?
What does the Weakness Policy do vs non-metal decks?
Weakness Policy is nothing more than a dead card in every other match up.

Charizard will give 2 prize cards when he dies, but at least he is doing something against other decks.
Charizard can at least give prize cards in return by pressuring the opponents baby’s.

What is your Weakness Policy doing?
Weakness Policy is doing NOTHING because it’s Weak Sauce.
A dead card that is dead weight.

At this point the OP has left the thread, I don’t blame him at all!
I would leave to if I heard suggestions like this.

Hopefully, He will come back to read my Charizard EX recommendation.
Than he will begin to win & prosper.
If your going to run a Fire Counter, Chaziard is looking like the best option.

——————————————————

-Teching Nagandel and using Jet Needles is a Pro play.
You wouldn’t understand.

-It’s like when people place Tapu Lele in the active position on turn 1.
It’s a next level play.
You simply wouldn’t understand.

-Playing Gyarados GX isn’t that bad.
Go online and look up person called DarkIntegral
He made a deck list using Gyarados + Alolah Marowak.
Alolah Marowak helps accelerate Gyarados attack’s.

Edited by Player_Jay, 03 August 2018 - 04:15 PM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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