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Standard Ninja-Fox (Greninja-GX/Zoroark-GX deck)


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11 July 2018 - 04:37 AM

#1

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx
So, I finally opened my 3rd Greninja-GX yesterday and decided to make a deck with it. Tried a few builds, first I went full spread (and failed), then tried a control deck (failed even worse), then decided to go safe and paired it with one of the best Pokémon in the game right now and ended up with this:
 
The main idea of the deck is to spread damage with the frogs making it easier for Zoroark to hit the correct numbers to 1-HKO the main pokemon in the format. I only play a 2-2 Zoroark line because the deck requires that thick line of 4-4-4 Greninja in order to be consistent (or at least as consistent as the deck can be, anyway). When the deck functions as it is supposed to it puts so much pressure in the opponent they usually concede. So far I am 7-4 with it, I managed to beat a couple Malamar (one Necrozma and one Ultra Necrozma), a Buzzwhole/Lycanroc and a couple Zoroark variants which is great. However, as any good Greninja deck, it sometimes bricks pretty hard. 
Anyway, it's a fun list to pilot and has some potential. 
If someone who plays Greninja-GX (or not...) has some advice to improve the build, it'd be great.
 
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
 
##Pokémon - 17
 
* 2 Zorua PR-SM SM83
* 2 Zoroark-GX PR-SM SM84
* 1 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
* 4 Froakie FLI 22
* 4 Frogadier FLI 23
* 1 Greninja BKP 40
* 3 Greninja-GX FLI 24
 
##Trainer Cards - 35
 
* 3 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 3 Brooklet Hill GRI 120
* 2 Timer Ball SUM 134
* 3 Devolution Spray EVO 76
* 4 Choice Band GRI 121
* 1 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
* 3 Super Scoop Up UL 83
* 2 Brigette BKT 134
* 4 Cynthia UPR 119
* 2 Field Blower GRI 125
* 2 Guzma BUS 115
* 4 Ultra Ball SLG 68
* 2 N FCO 105
 
##Energy - 8
 
* 4 Double Colorless Energy GRI 166
* 4 Splash Energy BKP 113
 
Total Cards - 60
 
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
 
 

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11 July 2018 - 08:55 AM

#2

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay
Deleted.

Edited by Player_Jay, 18 July 2018 - 05:42 AM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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11 July 2018 - 01:19 PM

#3

Pokegen85

    Trainer

  • Pokegen85

Player_Jay, you have crafted another great deck, and I one day hope to be able to do the same. It is with this desire to learn and grow as a deck builder that I must ask you a question about this Greninja GX schematic.  Specifically, you excluded one card that has become a staple in every good deck that I've seen played. That card is one that you, Player_Jay, recommended for me, and it has helped my draw power considerably. I'm talking about Oranguru from SUM.

 

That specific Pokemon for me is always worth the bench space due to its ability. Those 1-3 cards could really make the difference if your hand is empty or near it, especially if you end up drawing a card that you really need.  It is for that reason that I would recommend taking out one of the Alolan Vulpixes and exchanging it for Oranguru, as doing so made my deck faster. What do you think? Would adding Oranguru help this deck as well?


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11 July 2018 - 02:47 PM

#4

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay

Player_Jay, you have crafted another great deck, and I one day hope to be able to do the same. It is with this desire to learn and grow as a deck builder that I must ask you a question about this Greninja GX schematic. Specifically, you excluded one card that has become a staple in every good deck that I've seen played. That card is one that you, Player_Jay, recommended for me, and it has helped my draw power considerably. I'm talking about Oranguru from SUM.

That specific Pokemon for me is always worth the bench space due to its ability. Those 1-3 cards could really make the difference if your hand is empty or near it, especially if you end up drawing a card that you really need. It is for that reason that I would recommend taking out one of the Alolan Vulpixes and exchanging it for Oranguru, as doing so made my deck faster. What do you think? Would adding Oranguru help this deck as well?


Responding to First Paragraph:

Thank you for your kind words, PokeGen.
I would like to add - Don’t sell yourself short, Buddy!
You have already created some fine Decks!

The Dan Steely Knives Deck is Tough!
The Deck List may not be identical to some Pro Deck Builders.
However, I definitely wouldn’t want to face against it! Lol
It is a unique design that looks razor sharp.
If I was to face it, I would get sliced up like an apple. Lol

—————————————————————————————

Responding to Second Paragraph:

You have demonstrated great building techniques + asked some excellent question’s.
Should this deck have Oranguru in it?
The answer is no, but with an explanation!

Let me explain:
Oranguru has an ability that lets you draw until you have 3 cards.
It is a Great Deck Building Tech. to have a Pokémon in your deck that can draw!
It can help you win games!
It can help you get unstuck!
Your logic for wanting this Pokémon is good!

However, The reason I didn’t add Oranguru’s into the deck is because I added another!
Oranguru is the Banana Master!
However, There is another Master!
The Sushi Master!

There is another Pokémon that has an ability like Oranguru.
The Pokémon is called Octillery.

Octillery has an ability that lets you draw until you have 5 cards.
Octillery lets you draw more than Oranguru, but it comes with a catch!

The catch is:
Octillery is Stage 1 Pokémon.
Oranguru is Basic Pokémon.

In order to make Octillery, You need Remoraid.
In most decks, it can be more challenging to make the stage 1.

Oranguru draw a few cards less, but
- You only need to add 1 or 2 copies. (Doesn’t use a lot of deck space)
- You don’t have to evolve.
- It is ready to go at any time.

Octillery draws more cards, but
- You need to add 2 to 4 copies. (Uses more deck space because you have to add Remoraid)
- You have to evolve.
- It can delay you 1 turn because you have to evolve.

Oranguru is Colorless!
You can use any energy to charge him up and attack.

Octillery is Water!
Octillery only uses water energy to attack.

The reason I recommend Octillery is because the OP is playing a Water Deck.
The OP can use the Stadium Brooklyn Hill to search out Remoraid.
It can help speed up Octillery evolution.

It is a subtle difference!
However, it can pay off extra dividends.

Edited by Player_Jay, 11 July 2018 - 02:51 PM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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12 July 2018 - 01:31 AM

#5

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

Hello, Player_Jay, thank you for your suggestions, however I think you're underestimating the value of Zoroark in the build. First, it hits better number than Greninja, those extra 10 damage for only one energy attachment instead of two might be crucial, for example, let's assume I'm facing a Buzzwole-GX,Using Greninja I need a frogadier + a greninja evolution to get the damage done and 1HKO (assuming I have a choice band and the necessary energy), but with Zoroark I only need two frogadier evolution (which you can achieve more easily, based on what I've seen), just because of that 10 extra damage. Not to mention you are hitting weakness in Dawn Wings Necrozma, a pretty relevant pokemon right now (at least in Malamar decks). The consistency part it's pretty much covered in your decklist with Octillery, so, in that regard I think Zoroark and Octillery are pretty much on the same level as long as I manage to keep my hand under 5 cards.  

 

Also, I think your list could struggle to get an attacker every turn since you need two attachments to attack and have no energy acceleration at all. I like your approach, though, and want to try your decklist with some minor modifications like adding some Aqua Patches, adding one more Brigette (I prefer to have as many evolving basics turn one as possible) and taking out Cyrus (I really don't like giving my opponent the option of reusing their Leles).

Again, thank you very much for your opinion, I specially appreciate the fact that you even bothered to create a decklist to share with me and for keeping your criticism of my build constructive. 


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12 July 2018 - 06:54 AM

#6

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay
Deleted.

Edited by Player_Jay, 18 July 2018 - 05:46 AM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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12 July 2018 - 08:36 PM

#7

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx
Player_Jay, sure, Zoroark has better companions, but Greninja does not. Sure, I'm aware Octillery is a great partner for consistency but it can't attack... I attack with both Greninja and Zoroark in my build (granted, the main focus is Zoroark, because it hits better numbers, but Greninja does attack). However in your build you have no back up plan... If a Greninja goes down and I have no other one set up... I pretty much lose.

Now, as the acceleration part, pretty much every viable deck right now uses either one energy attackers or a lot of acceleration.

- Necrozma/Ultra Necrozma: Malamar
- Lapras: Aqua Patch/Max Elixir
- Buzzwole (GX and non GX): Max Elixir/Beast Ring
- Tapu Bulu: Vikavolt ***, I know this is not as relevant, but still)
- Dusk Mane: Max Elixir/Magnezone

The other relevant Pokémon like Golisopod, Zoroark and Garbodor attack for only one energy attachment.

Also I rarely had trouble finding my energy in the deck I run, it has enough draw options. When I said it bricked was because the deck has a thick line of evolution Pokémon, so, it is normal to end up with a hand saturated with evolutions you can't use.

As for my modifications, if I run Aqua Patch, I would drop Splash Energy (used just as a form of recursion for evolution damage, really, in case my opponent managed to KO a Forgadier or even a Greninja) and use basics instead and if I lose a Pokémon or two, in comes Super Rod (which I like better than Rescues Stretcher because of the energy recursion or maybe play a combination of both) I would also replace the energy lotto (since I have enough consistency with Octillery) and the Special Charge (don't really see the use for it here once you addthe Patches).

Regarding Cyrus, I know the effect can (and pretty much here is where it loses me, in that it CAN be useful and not always IS) be powerful, but in general I don't like giving my opponent the ability to chose what they send back to their deck. It won't remove back up attackers, and honestly, I can't even remember the last time I played a Malamar/Necrozma deck with no Leles benched (maybe Buzzwole in the early game, but Malamar...), also for that reason I don't play in any of my water and/ or metal decks.

Thanks again, I really think this discussion has helped me clear ideas as to what I want to do with both decks, the one I build and the one you recommended.
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12 July 2018 - 11:45 PM

#8

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi
There's also this (by Jimmy Wuyts). I guess you can make your own changes.

Pokemon - 15
4 Froakie FLI 22
4 Frogadier FLI 23
3 Greninja-GX FLI 24
2 Latios SLG 41
2 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60

Trainer - 33
4 N FCO 105
3 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
3 Cynthia UPR 119
3 Guzma BUS 115
2 Brigette BKT 134
4 Ultra Ball SUM 135
3 Aqua Patch GRI 119
3 Super Scoop Up BUS 124
2 Field Blower GRI 125
1 Timer Ball SUM 134
3 Choice Band GRI 121
2 Float Stone BKT 137

Energy - 12
6 Water Energy 3
4 Double Colorless Energy SUM 136
2 Splash Energy BKP 113

Aqua Patch is there cuz...let's face it: A 2HKO, 2-turn charge attack on a stage 2 is horrible.
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13 July 2018 - 12:20 AM

#9

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay
Deleted.

Edited by Player_Jay, 18 July 2018 - 05:48 AM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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15 July 2018 - 05:17 AM

#10

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

And I fail to see why you assume you can... If you go full hit and run with Greninja and play no acceleration you're effectively losing two energy a turn while only attaching one... You are going to run out of energy sooner than later and Greninja will go down because it is unable to go into the deck and "heal".

Also Alolan Vulpix is nice for the first turn, after that if becames just Ultra Ball ******, it's not really needed when using timer ball (not using your attack for the turn is well worth the risk of using the flippy card).

My draw supporter line was intentionally thin because of 1: deck space and 2: The added consistency of Zoroark.

The way you're suggesting me to play the deck will make Greninja go down, 230 HP although high is not unbeatable and you can get 2HKO'ed as well (remember that after you run away you have to place another pokémon to wall in the active and at the energy trade you're suggesting you won't be able to keep up after a few turns, specially if you put a Greninja to tank the hit after the other ran away). Not to mention you're getting 1HK'ed by Golisopod (which is seeing a spike in play after Columbus) and Bulu.

Oh, and I mentioned all those decks because those are the meta relevant Pokémon right now... A very fast meta, by the way in which 2 manual energy attachments are way too slow to keep up.

I think our differences in this particular topic seem to be irreconcilable, but, as you said... It's ok, we can agree to disagree.


Edited by xXTheStalkXx, 15 July 2018 - 06:19 AM.

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15 July 2018 - 05:22 AM

#11

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

There's also this (by Jimmy Wuyts). I guess you can make your own changes.

Pokemon - 15
4 Froakie FLI 22
4 Frogadier FLI 23
3 Greninja-GX FLI 24
2 Latios SLG 41
2 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60

Trainer - 33
4 N FCO 105
3 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
3 Cynthia UPR 119
3 Guzma BUS 115
2 Brigette BKT 134
4 Ultra Ball SUM 135
3 Aqua Patch GRI 119
3 Super Scoop Up BUS 124
2 Field Blower GRI 125
1 Timer Ball SUM 134
3 Choice Band GRI 121
2 Float Stone BKT 137

Energy - 12
6 Water Energy 3
4 Double Colorless Energy SUM 136
2 Splash Energy BKP 113

Aqua Patch is there cuz...let's face it: A 2HKO, 2-turn charge attack on a stage 2 is horrible.

 

Thanks, BowserLuigi, looks like an interesting list... I am going to definitely give it a try. 


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16 July 2018 - 08:13 AM

#12

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay
Deleted.

Edited by Player_Jay, 18 July 2018 - 05:51 AM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
  • -2

16 July 2018 - 02:15 PM

#13

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

As for my modifications, if I run Aqua Patch, I would drop Splash Energy (used just as a form of recursion for evolution damage, really, in case my opponent managed to KO a Forgadier or even a Greninja) and use basics instead.

 

I never planned to run only 4 basics in the list you provided. Obviously 4 is way to low to make Aqua Patch consistently  useful. 

 

 

You showed a deck list with the following energies:
-4 Double Colorless
-4 Splash Energy

Your telling me that your going to use Aqua Patch in a Deck with no Basic Energy to accelerate your game?
It’s illegal!

 

There are 0 Aqua Patches in my list, and never mentioned playing it in my build. 

Where are you getting this from? 


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16 July 2018 - 05:42 PM

#14

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_

*Snip*

Oh for crying out loud.

 

The main criticism towards your deck is that it is too slow, especially without Aqua Patch. Obviously this means that the deck would need to adjust the energy distribution (which you should do anyway, as running the 8/4 split of special and non special energy is just asking to get punished by E.Hammer, loosing more tempo in the process).

Some basic principles in terms of deck building should be considered a given. When you advice someone to add certain cards to his deck, do you expect them to reply with “But I can only play 60 cards and now I have 60+ X”, or do you expect the other person to be smart enough to add 1+1 in their head and probably figure out that they'll need to cut some cards.

 

I'm also kinda amazed by this paragraph:

 

I don’t like the way your playing Greninja GX.
I feel the way your playing Greninja GX wrong.
It seems like you are trying an Old School strategy on a New Age Pokémon.
- Devolution Spray
- Scoop up’s
I don’t like it.

Greninja GX is a monster.
We are talking about a 230 HP Pokémon.
We are talking about a 110 Damage Attack.
We are talking about a 130 GX Attack.

Greninja GX can 2 shot any Relevant Meta Pokemon right now.
Buzzwole = 190 HP
Ultra Necro. = 190 HP
Zoroark = 210 HP
Your Greninja can do 220 Damage in 2 hits.

Froakie > Frogadier > Greninja GX = 50 Damage Counters added by there effect.
It will take forever to bring down a Pokémon with 190 HP.
Even a Basic Pokémon with 70 HP would need you to do 1 full line + half line
 

It's one thing to dislike a certain deck archetype / concept. If I'd advise a beginner which deck is better for them, I'd always point towards your version (with the addition of Aqua Patch), because it has a linear game-plan and it's easy to execute.

It's another story if you simply fail to understand the game plan.

 

You see a decent attacker that can 2shot any relevant meta Pokemon. I see a Pokemon that struggles to keep the damage against Acerola, and Max Potion.

 

Stalk saw a Pokemon that, when utilized, can set up KOs, place you ahead in the damage race and paired with the right partner can even threaten OHKOs against relevant meta decks.


The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

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17 July 2018 - 12:31 AM

#15

EpicShonenGuy

    Senior Trainer

  • EpicShonenGuy
Take out super scoop up and spray and also splash energy you don't need them they will only rattle your deck so just add other useful cards like puzzle of time, and greninja always needs a partner it's not good as solo attacker like some people are saying. Here's the list i play, i don't need to explain why i don't use a thicker line of draw supporters because Zoroark GX and yada yada yada.
 
 
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
 
##Pokémon - 19
 
* 4 Zorua SLG 52
* 4 Zoroark-GX PR-SM SM84
* 1 Latios SLG 41
* 1 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 137
* 3 Froakie FLI 22
* 3 Frogadier FLI 23
* 3 Greninja-GX FLI 120
 
##Trainer Cards - 34
 
* 1 Professor Sycamore STS 114
* 1 Rescue Stretcher BUS 165
* 1 Acerola BUS 142
* 1 Mallow GRI 127
* 3 Timer Ball SUM 134
* 4 Puzzle of Time BKP 109
* 3 Cynthia UPR 119
* 3 Guzma BUS 115
* 4 Ultra Ball SLG 68
* 3 Brigette BKT 161
* 3 N NVI 101
* 3 Choice Band GRI 121
* 3 Field Blower GRI 125
* 1 Float Stone BKT 137
 
##Energy - 7
 
* 3 Water Energy  3
* 4 Double Colorless Energy SUM 136
 
Total Cards - 60
 
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

Edited by EpicShonenGuy, 17 July 2018 - 12:32 AM.

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18 July 2018 - 06:08 AM

#16

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay
You think my deck underestimates the value of Zoroark...
You think my deck is slow...
You think my deck will struggle...
You think my deck isn’t good enough...

I have deleted my previous post on this thread.
You can find advice on how to improve your deck from someone else.
Good Day!
It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
  • -1

20 July 2018 - 01:10 AM

#17

xXTheStalkXx

    Trainer

  • xXTheStalkXx

**Deck**

 

 

Interesting... I actually thought about going full Zoroark but decided it would be too many Pokémon in the deck (then I made a 17 Pokémon deck, HA... The irony).Also I'm realizing after playing Bowser_Luigi's version and this (and obviously the experience I have with my own deck) that Brooklet Hill is not really needed at all, you usually get all you need to get out (and effectively can) off Brigette. 

I like your build and will give it a try to see if I can make some little changes so it would fit better with my play style. 


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