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[CARD] Exeggcute (PLF 4/PLB 102) - Propagation Bug


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08 July 2018 - 04:08 PM

#1

kviehdor

    Rookie Trainer

  • kviehdor

So we know Exeggcute can use Propagation to return to an owner's hand once per turn. However, even though the card CLEARLY says only "once per turn," I noticed that this card is being used in Zoroark decks and the ability is being used up to 10+ times per turn. From my understanding, abilities aren't supposed to reset in the discard pile, and this is clearly people taking advantage of a faulty online mechanic.


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08 July 2018 - 05:36 PM

#2

SharKing319

    Expert Trainer

  • SharKing319

There's actually an official ruling saying that Propagation basically resets when it leaves and re-enters the discard pile, so it can be used more than once a turn. That "once per turn" text under Propagation means nothing.

 

Yeah, it's confusing, it makes you wonder why "once per turn" was printed there in the first place, and it's inevitably led to a lot of people thinking the card's bugged and/or the guy using it is cheating, because who can be expected to magically hear about such an arbitrary rule before playing the game?


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08 July 2018 - 06:14 PM

#3

Mod_Alder

    Moderator

  • Mod_Alder

Interesting thanks for the clarification SharKing


Moderator Alder
Pokémon TCG Online Moderator

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08 July 2018 - 07:13 PM

#4

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_

316.10a A card that changes zones is no longer the same card, even if it returns to the previous zone. Any modifiers on that card are removed when changing zones.


The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

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09 July 2018 - 12:31 PM

#5

Mod_Jynthu

    Moderator

  • Mod_Jynthu

Hello kviehdor,

 

I have updated the title of your thread to be more descriptive.

 

Thanks!


Moderator Jynthu
Pokémon TCG Online Moderator
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31 July 2018 - 04:45 AM

#6

Bakazig

    Rookie Trainer

  • Bakazig
I never really post in the forums but i came to verify if the "propagation" ability was a bug that people could exploit. I lost a tournament because of it. I never knew that such a rule mentioned in a previous post here existed; of course, i have never read the official rules either. But then again how many of the people playing the game ever have?
This obscure rule brings a few questions to mind.
1. Could using the propagation ability accordingly with this official ruling still be considered exploitation since it grants the player using it an unfair advantage especially over players who don't know any better?
2. Could this warrant some research from whoever makes the rules?
3. Since there are a few players using this to win, could there at least be a temporary ban on using the card until this rule/ruling is either explained clearly to the masses or a better solution is found?

Just food for thought. Thanks for your consideration.

Edited by Bakazig, 31 July 2018 - 04:49 AM.

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31 July 2018 - 05:55 AM

#7

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

This obscure rule brings a few questions to mind.
1. Could using the propagation ability accordingly with this official ruling still be considered exploitation since it grants the player using it an unfair advantage especially over players who don't know any better?
2. Could this warrant some research from whoever makes the rules?
3. Since there are a few players using this to win, could there at least be a temporary ban on using the card until this rule/ruling is either explained clearly to the masses or a better solution is found?

Just food for thought. Thanks for your consideration.

This sounds like many ways of asking the same question, hoping for a different answer.

 

1.  It's not exploitation.  It's not unfair that every good card won't work in every deck, and finding unique synergy, advantages, or mechanisms is the heart of building good decks.

2.  This has already been researched "from whoever makes the rules."

3.  No ban is necessary, because "using this to win" is expected behavior, and the official ruling has been published for over 5 years.  Ignorance of rules "by the masses" is no excuse that warrants removal of a card, is it?

 

Here's the official rulings on Propagation...

 

Q. If I use Exeggcute's "Propagation" Ability to retrieve it from the Discard Pile into my hand, then use something like Ultra Ball or Computer Search to discard Exeggcute, would I be able to use "Propagation" again to retrieve it from the Discard Pile?
A. Yes, whenever Exeggcute is in the Discard Pile, you may use Propagation during your turn as long as its Ability has not been disabled. (Plasma Freeze FAQ; May 16, 2013 TPCi Rules Team)

 

Q. If I use Weavile's "Vilify" attack to discard one or more Exeggcute, can I use Exeggcute's "Propagation" Ability to immediately retrieve it back into my hand?
A. No, you cannot. Propagation can only be used on your turn before your attack, not during your attack nor afterward. (Plasma Freeze FAQ; May 16, 2013 TPCi Rules Team)


Edited by RobRatt, 31 July 2018 - 06:26 AM.

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31 July 2018 - 05:58 PM

#8

Bakazig

    Rookie Trainer

  • Bakazig
Thank you for posting more of the ruling, and thank you for not beating me up over my questions. Upon re-reading what i wrote it definitely looks like what RobRatt said i was doing i did: asked the same question hoping for a different answer. I see the logic in his reasoning and i agree with him.

Clearly I'm not a longtime player, and as i said i don't post or even read the forums often. I'm a casual player. I ran into what i thought was an exploitation or a bug and did a little research so i didn't needlessly report someone.

Is there a place where noobs like me can read official rules and rulings and better educate ourselves so we don't become a whining thorn in someone's side? Thanks for patience with me😊. I love this game and am trying hard to learn strategies to play well.

Edited by Bakazig, 31 July 2018 - 06:01 PM.

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31 July 2018 - 06:46 PM

#9

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

Is there a place where noobs like me can read official rules and rulings and better educate ourselves so we don't become a whining thorn in someone's side? Thanks for patience with me. I love this game and am trying hard to learn strategies to play well.

You should never feel bad about questioning the rules or card rulings.  They can be confusing.  It's not a matter of intelligence, but using some vague Pokémon logic, which doesn't come naturally.  There have been times, since the cards are designed in Japan, that the official translators get it wrong, and an errata has to be issued to clear up the true intent of a card's actions (so even the best of them can get it wrong).

 

To answer your questions about "is there a place" to read the rules, there are 3 resources you should check out.

 

1.  The ruling that @Felidae_ quoted above is not from an official source.  It's CORRECT, but not sanctioned by The Pokémon Company.  That comes from a 2008 PDF file that you can find on the internet.  Google "Pokémon TCG Comprehensive Rules."  Although it's not official, and getting old, it can give you a different way of seeing the game mechanics that will be helpful.

 

2.  Long before the Online game (PTCGO), almost from the beginning, the "go to" source for Pokémon discussion and questions was The PokeGym (it's a dot net site).  It was started by a couple of head tournament organizers and judges, big names in the Pokémon Community (namely Big Daddy Snorlax, aka Richard).  The ruling I quoted above comes from The Compendium, available on that site, and is still used by all judges at real-world events.  Although the Forum isn't very active anymore (replaced by this one), The Compendium is a must-read for card rulings, and meta-rulings for the game itself.

 

3.  The best resource available is right here on the Pokémon site, in the Play Pokémon Events section.  If you look there, you'll find a wealth of info including the Rule Book (PDF), Event Rules, Formats, Errata, Banned Cards, Deck Lists, etc.

 

https://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/about/tournaments-rules-and-resources/


Edited by RobRatt, 31 July 2018 - 09:52 PM.

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