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Post Rotation Ready: Tapu KrowKrow


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06 July 2018 - 01:34 PM

#21

Player_Jay

    Trainer

  • Player_Jay

Agreed.
Personally, I’ve left this conversation. At this point, Player_Jay is arguing that a bad card that has next to no synergy with the deck is better than my bad card that has some decent synergy with the deck.
The argument is stupid.


Did you honestly expect me to sit idly by as you bad mouth Hau in favor of Sophocles the garbage support card?
Sophocles is the worst draw supporter in the game!
Your deck is suffering.

Now, you don’t want to be part of the conversation!
You only want to listen when people are telling you what you want to hear.
You only want to listen when people are agreeing with you.

I’m not going to tell you what you want to hear.
I’m not going to agree with you.
Sophocles is so bad.
You need to change this card ASAP

I have mathematically proven Sophocles is inferior to Hau!
You can’t argue with this ironclad evidence.
It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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06 July 2018 - 02:40 PM

#22

Player_Jay

    Trainer

  • Player_Jay
-1 Honchkrow
-1 Murkrow
-1 Nest Ball
-1 Energy Lotto
-2 Counter Catcher
-2 Lillie
-2 Sophocles
-2 Counter Energy

+1 Oranguru
+1 Pal Pad
+2 Guzma
+3 Tata&Liza
+3 Judge
+2 United Energy or Rainbow Energy
It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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06 July 2018 - 04:59 PM

#23

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi

Ok I'm not gonna argue with you about Hau vs Soph anymore. I have already explained my reasons. I have also 'mathematically' proven that Soph is better (26 cards is less than 27 cards, yeah go math). But I wanted to highlight this:

+2 United Energy or Rainbow Energy

Ok I dunno what's united energy but seriously what's the flipping point of rainbow energy here? Not a single pokemon in TC's deck needs it. NONE. Just use psychic energy if you want more energy.... 

 

Apart from that, lowering the Murkrow line count seems reasonable.

 

Replacing Counter Catcher with Guzma is ok unless TC decides to ditch all Honchkrows. Counter Energy is not needed since Malamar accelerates energy anyway.

 

The draw supporters... at this point I'll just leave it to the regional/worlds players to figure out the formula. 


Edited by BowserLuigi, 06 July 2018 - 05:10 PM.

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07 July 2018 - 12:35 AM

#24

Player_Jay

    Trainer

  • Player_Jay

Ok I'm not gonna argue with you about Hau vs Soph anymore. I have already explained my reasons. I have also 'mathematically' proven that Soph is better (26 cards is less than 27 cards, yeah go math). But I wanted to highlight this:

Ok I dunno what's united energy but seriously what's the flipping point of rainbow energy here? Not a single pokemon in TC's deck needs it. NONE. Just use psychic energy if you want more energy....

Apart from that, lowering the Murkrow line count seems reasonable.

Replacing Counter Catcher with Guzma is ok unless TC decides to ditch all Honchkrows. Counter Energy is not needed since Malamar accelerates energy anyway.

The draw supporters... at this point I'll just leave it to the regional/worlds players to figure out the formula.

I would love to continue arguing about how Hau crushes Sophocles.
However, it is a pointless for me to continue.
You & the OP will never understand my words.
You & the OP can’t understand because you both have wrong concepts about digging.

———————————————————————————————————————

Yes, the OP is running a Pokémon that needs United Energy or Rainbow Energy.
The OP is running 2 copies of the Baby Tapu Lele.
The Baby Tapu Lele uses Fairy Energy.

The OP was using Counter Energy to help charge up the Baby Tapu Lele.
Counter Energy requires a person to be losing in order to work.

I have replaced the Counter Energy with the Fairy United Energy or Rainbow Energy.
The 2 above energy can work with out losing or being behind.

I did think about replacing the Baby Tapu Lele’s, but they seem to be to good.
The OP deck does spread damage.
Baby Tapu Lele can redirect the Damage in order to OTK Pokémon.

——————————————————————————————

The Honchkrow line needs to be reduced because Honchkrow is bad in the beginning of a duel.
I have reduced the line by 1.
I may even go back to reduce it by 2.

The issue with Honchkrow is that he is only good after you have Damage counters on your opponents Pokémon.
This doesn’t happen at the beginning of the duel.
Running 4x of him will increase your chances of drawing him to early.

I never played the OP deck, but I have used Honchkrow.
I own a Weavile/Honchkrow Deck.

Weavile can deal out spread Damage similar to Tapu Koko.
Than you use Honchkrow after the Damage has been spread.
The deck concept is the same.

——————————————————————————————

Counter Catcher is trash for sure.
Guzma is better.

The OP can’t ditch the Honchkrow’s.
He can reduce there line some so he doesn’t draw to early, but not ditch completely.

Counter Energy is trash.
United Energy or Rainbow Energy is better.

Counter Energy was used for Fairy energy.
Malamar can’t help.

——————————————————————————

I prefer Pokémon Fan Club for my first turn play.
The OP has his mind set on Lillie as his first turn play.
It’s what ever.
He can do what ever he wants.

I got rid of the other Lillie and kept his first turn Lillie.
Judge is for opponent disruption.
Tata&Liza can help him draw 5 or help him switch.

Some of his Pokémon have 2 retreat cost.
The switch can help him.

This is why I have it instead of Sightseer.

Edited by Player_Jay, 07 July 2018 - 12:39 AM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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07 July 2018 - 04:21 AM

#25

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi
^ Yet I still believe that my concept is correct, so there. Would you believe me if I said that Team Magma Grunt can be slightly better than Hau in a deck without Team Magma Pokemon (I highly do not recommend actually running it though)?

For some reason I forgot about the baby tapu lele. My bad there. In that case rainbow energy is preferred over united energy (unit energy?), since running the latter will be no different than running regular fairy energies. However, there IS a psychic type version of the same Tapu Lele that I think is currently unreleased in NA and when it does arrive, there would be no need of rainbows.

The reason to use Counter Catcher (and counter energy) is because if TC decides to get rid of the Honchkrows, he would use a strat where he Flying Flips nearly every single turn to flood the opposing field with damage, and Necrozma GX for burst damage on GX. He will purposely let the other guy take a few prizes, then once there are enough damage counters, attach CE onto baby lele and kill several guys (preferably GX). That deck would want 4 CE (as well as 4 DCE). Seeing that this is not the route TC took, Guzma is decidedly better. I think I even want an extra Guzma. Post-rotation float stone will be gone and T&L is a supporter, thus it should make retreating much harder for some pokemon. This should buy TC more time to Flying Flip.

Counter energy is bad in many decks but isn't really that bad in this deck since you are highly unlikely to take the first prize card.

Edited by BowserLuigi, 07 July 2018 - 04:27 AM.

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07 July 2018 - 12:56 PM

#26

Player_Jay

    Trainer

  • Player_Jay
I am happy.
The OP wanted help/recommendations to turn his sloppy Post-Rotation deck into a well oiled machine of destruction.

I gave him the advice to make the transformation!
I explained the reason behind my advice.

I came!
I saw!
I conquered!

NAILED IT!

If the OP doesn’t listen, it is because he loves his deck being sloppy.
It is his own personal life choice.
It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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08 July 2018 - 09:43 AM

#27

Aduitt

    Rookie Trainer

  • Aduitt
Player_Jay.
Play the darn deck.
You have won nothing.
There are ideas that work well on paper but not in practice.

Play the deck then give advice, I urge everyone here to do so.

I tried all advice (using proxy’s) at my locals today to see if they worked.... they made the deck fail more than ever!
Play the darn deck, then give advice on how to ‘fix it.’ You have no idea if the needs that the deck requires.

I am growing impatient towards your narrow view of deck building. You have never and probably will never play this deck because your ideas are so ‘superior’ that you see no need to test them. As someone who has playtested all these ‘tips,’ I can actually say that the advice given was bad advice.
Play test your ideas.

No one here wants to continue this chat anymore!
Nobody has an opinion because yours is always apparently right.


For future reference:
You will say something along the lines of “I never claimed that my advice was superior to yours”..... reading through the chat, it’s obvious that you think so as you have denied anyone and everyone of an opinion on this deck. Even the one who plays it.

Edited by Aduitt, 08 July 2018 - 09:58 AM.

See You Space Cowboy...

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08 July 2018 - 11:45 AM

#28

Player_Jay

    Trainer

  • Player_Jay

Player_Jay.
Play the darn deck.
You have won nothing.
There are ideas that work well on paper but not in practice.
Play the deck then give advice, I urge everyone here to do so.
I tried all advice (using proxy’s) at my locals today to see if they worked.... they made the deck fail more than ever!
Play the darn deck, then give advice on how to ‘fix it.’ You have no idea if the needs that the deck requires.
I am growing impatient towards your narrow view of deck building. You have never and probably will never play this deck because your ideas are so ‘superior’ that you see no need to test them. As someone who has playtested all these ‘tips,’ I can actually say that the advice given was bad advice.
Play test your ideas.
No one here wants to continue this chat anymore!
Nobody has an opinion because yours is always apparently right.
For future reference:
You will say something along the lines of “I never claimed that my advice was superior to yours”..... reading through the chat, it’s obvious that you think so as you have denied anyone and everyone of an opinion on this deck. Even the one who plays it.

Does Michael Jordan have to play a Basketball Exhibition match against locals to prove to the World he is one of the best of all time?

I think not!

It’s clear to me that you didn’t listen to my advice.
Otherwise, you would have dominated at your locals.

You fail because you don’t listen!
You haven’t listened to 1 word I have said on this thread.
In fact, you have done the opposite to what I have said!

I told you.
Your first turn supporter should be Pokémon Fan Club to set up your board.
You than take out Pokémon Fan Club from your deck completely.

I told you Necro. isn’t that great because he doesn’t effect Non-GX/EX Pokémon.
You keep him inside anyway.

I told you Sophocles is bad.
I wrote a manifest telling you how bad Sophocles is.
I even compare it to Hau to show you how really bad it is.
You leave the conversation.
Come back a few days later and decide to keep Sophocles in your Deck List anyway.

I told you to replace Counter Catcher & Counter Energy.
They are loser cards.
They are played in gimmicky decks that will lose.
You than took a stance against me.

You said “you wanted them in your deck because the deck is supposed to be losing”.
Well guess what?

You went to your locals.
The deck you wanted to be losing, actually lost!
You consider it a Failure.
Maybe, you should consider it a Success.
It did exactly what you wanted it to do.

What really makes me laugh is that you come back here blaming the people who gave you advice.
It’s not my fault that you lost at your locals.
It’s not my fault that you grow impatient.

You say my view on deck building is narrow!
How can you make such a statement?

You haven’t seen all the decks I ever built.
You haven’t seen all the advice I ever given.
I have built decks all kinds of ways.

But since we are on the subject of narrow.
As of right now, your original post was posted on July 3th.
The last time you edit it was on July 3th.
It has been 5 days + 28 comments later.
Your deck list hasn’t changed at all.
You haven’t edit it at all.

Can you explain that?
People, other than me, have given you advice too.
You didn’t change anything for anyone.
You haven’t edited a single thing in days.

It might be difficult to understand, but is it possible that I’m not the one narrow here?

Edited by Player_Jay, 08 July 2018 - 11:48 AM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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08 July 2018 - 01:08 PM

#29

Aduitt

    Rookie Trainer

  • Aduitt
Does Michael Jordan have to play a Basketball Exhibition match against locals to prove to the World he is one of the best of all time?
I think not!

Yeah, he does.
Michael played against other people to grasp a better understanding on how to play basketball. You can't learn basket ball by theory alone after all.
If anything, these are two different games so the analogy doesn't quite work in this scenario. I know what you're getting at though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It’s clear to me that you didn’t listen to my advice.
Otherwise, you would have dominated at your locals.


Really?
I doubt that you've seen the deck play before, let alone with your alterations.
Play the deck yourself, then decide if your advice helps as much as you say it does.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You fail because you don’t listen!
You haven’t listened to 1 word I have said on this thread.
In fact, you have done the opposite to what I have said!


Actually, I have.
That's why I play tested your advice, even though you were being obnoxious about it.
I respect any and all advice given.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I told you.
Your first turn supporter should be Pokémon Fan Club to set up your board.
You than take out Pokémon Fan Club from your deck completely.


Actually, I posted this updated version a couple days ago.
I realised that though I don't use it often, PFC is a decent card in this deck and should have a place among my supporters.
Here's the updated post: [url="[url]http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/63345-tapu-krowkrow-deck-post-rotation-updated/"]http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/63345-tapu-krowkrow-deck-post-rotation-updated/[/url][/url]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I told you Necro. isn’t that great because he doesn’t effect Non-GX/EX Pokémon.
You keep him inside anyway.


Mate...
Decks such as Zoroark and Buzzwole (current meta) work by spamming out GX Pokémon. I am taking advantage of that.
Also, if I am against a non GX deck, I simply don't use Necrozma GX. I can use it as discard material or something. It's pretty simple to play around.
It's not the playmaker of the deck after all.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I told you Sophocles is bad.
I wrote a manifest telling you how bad Sophocles is.
I even compare it to Hau to show you how really bad it is.
You leave the conversation.
Come back a few days later and decide to keep Sophocles in your Deck List anyway.


I left the conversation because nobody was going to win.

I believe that Hau is a bad card. I also believe that Sophocles is a bad card that can help my deck function.
Both can defiantly get you out of a pinch when needed. Sophocles works better in my case though.
You can probably say the same for Hau.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I told you to replace Counter Catcher & Counter Energy.
They are loser cards.
They are played in gimmicky decks that will lose.
You than took a stance against me.


By the time my field is setup and I have done some decent damage with Koko, my opponent has already taken a prize card. Counter energy in this scenario is basically another DCE.
The build I am using doesn't really need to KO anything until late game anyway.
It's a spread damage deck after all.

Counter Catcher is a good card. in this deck, it's Guzma as an item, plus I don't need to retreat my own Pokémon.

In fact, I am going to be running another 'Counter' item when it is released.
Pokémon Tool - 'Counter Gainer.'
Basically what it does is this: When I have more prize cards than my opponent, the Pokémon that has Counter Gainer equip has one [C] removed from its move cost.
Pretty good, especially in this deck.
Also, every deck has it's gimmick. Using 'Counter' cards is just mine.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You said “you wanted them in your deck because the deck is supposed to be losing”.
Well guess what?

You went to your locals.
The deck you wanted to be losing, actually lost!
You consider it a Failure.
Maybe, you should consider it a Success.
It did exactly what you wanted it to do.


I want to have more prize cards than my opponent to optimise this decks play style, yes.
If I lose, I treat it as any other loss and playtest it again as 65% of playing the Pokémon TCG is what I can do with the cards that are in my hand.
If I lose, a majority of the time it is my own fault, not my decks.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What really makes me laugh is that you come back here blaming the people who gave you advice.
It’s not my fault that you lost at your locals.
It’s not my fault that you grow impatient.


Actually no. The reason I said it was the 'alterations' fault is because it really was their fault.
Having something like an additional Pal Pad (a suggestion of yours) instead of say a Counter Energy means that I am unable to use Baby Tapu Lele. A majority of the time, this will lose me the game. No matter how well I 'play around' this change.

Also, I did win a few games at locals. The games I won however were due to my Tapu Lele manipulating my opponents damage counters.
This strategy relies on the use of counter catcher though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You say my view on deck building is narrow!
How can you make such a statement?


You haven’t seen all the decks I ever built.
You haven’t seen all the advice I ever given.
I have built decks all kinds of ways.


I was in the wrong here. What you said here is a perfectly valid point and I apologise.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But since we are on the subject of narrow.
As of right now, your original post was posted on July 3th.
The last time you edit it was on July 3th.
It has been 5 days + 28 comments later.
Your deck list hasn’t changed at all.
You haven’t edit it at all.


Yeah. I did initially, but after a time moved to another thread so I could reformat everything. here is a link to that post with some different cards added in. Cards that were suggested by you and others.
[url="[url]http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/63345-tapu-krowkrow-deck-post-rotation-updated/"]http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/63345-tapu-krowkrow-deck-post-rotation-updated/[/url][/url]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you explain that?
People, other than me, have given you advice too.
You didn’t change anything for anyone.
You haven’t edited a single thing in days.


The difference between your advice and theirs is that they suggested, you told.
In fact the reason that I put PDC back in is not just because of you telling me to. Around 5-6 other people (I posted this in various forums) said it would be worth adding.
I have taken the advice here and changed around my deck to make it better.
I respect any and all advice given, even if I won't use it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It might be difficult to understand, but is it possible that I’m not the one narrow here?

As I said, I have changed the deck since its initial release (I don't beleive that this site shows when a thread has been edited).
I take advice with a pinch of salt as sometimes I don't want to remove/add cards, but I do.
That is why I ask for advice. Sometimes my card choices are not good.


Anyway.
I’m going to be the bigger man here and walk away. You should too.

Nobody is going to win this argument.

Have a good day.

Edited by Aduitt, 09 July 2018 - 12:11 AM.

See You Space Cowboy...

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