^ Keep in mind that you used the same reasoning with Lillie, concluding that she's similar to Hau based on the 'average' number of cards she draws, despite being painfully obvious to many people that Lillie is superior (seriously just ask anyone).
Net gain is not how you measure a draw supporter's efficiency. The way the game is designed, you can afford to pay 2 cards most of the time. The important thing is that Sophocles allows you to dig through your deck just a tiny bit faster. That's already a good improvement from Hau. The reason Sophocles is never used is because he still draws too little, and unlikely to bail you out of a stuck hand.
And it's not like you can't use the discard to your advantage either. Discarding junk means that you won't draw them again after a Cynthia or N.
Sightseer is a poor man's Sycamore. But post-rotation, it looks promising (in general, not just a specific deck). It probably won't be better than Cynthia, but it is at least equal to Tate and Liza, and much better than Hau and Sophocles.
1- Congratulations, you have successfully taken my statements out of context & twisted them in order to disprove me.
It will take some explaining to unwind this one.
First off, I never said Lillie was inferior to Hau.
Second, I said on average based on my own games Lillie gave the same card pulls to Hau.
I concluded Lillie on average was a +2 net gain in my games.
Hau is a guaranteed +2 net gain.
The difference is Lillie +2 isn’t a guarantee.
Lillie can get you a higher net gain.
The highest Lillie can go with out including the first turn is +6.
The reason I didn’t include the first turn was because I was going to play Pokémon Fan Club Post-Rotation as my first turn supporter similar to the OP on this thread.
This rules out Lillie +7 or +8 possibility.
Lillie is +1 to +6 with out first turn.
Lillie average for me was +2 or higher.
I considered +2 has my average base amount.
Mathematically, Lillie would be in the range +2 to +6 net gain.
This means Lillie is even or superior to Hau.
The problem is I considered this mathematical outcome trash.
I considered Lillie trash based on my above findings.
If I use Lillie, I will get a ball park draw pull with Lillie in the range of +2 to +6.
This means Lillie draw pull is inconsistent.
I was looking for a Post-Rotation card to replace Professor Scyamore.
Pro. Scyamore is a Guarantee +7.
Lillie Ball Park +2 to +6.
Lillie can’t fill Professor Scyamore shoes, but there are 2 trainers that can.
They both can get you a +7, but they both come with risk.
- Illama is a coin flip which makes Illama inconsistent trash.
- Hala has a restriction only allowing you to get a +7 if you use your GX.
The rest of the time Hala is a +4 equal to a Judge which I will run Judge.
The main issue I face Post-Rotation is that my deck doesn’t run many GX.
I was debating how hard it would be for me to pull off the GX Attack every game to get Hala +7.
If I can’t pull off the GX, Hala average will be +4.
This would means T & Liza which is a +5 is would be better.
2- Bowserluigi wrote “Net gain isn’t how you measure a card efficiency.”
You speak for yourself.
A lot of people measure the worth of a card by its net gain.
It is one of the very best ways of measuring a card.
3- Bowserluigi wrote “The important thing is that Sophocles allows you to dig though your deck a tiny bit faster.”
Do you even realize your contradicting yourself?
You say net gain isn’t how you measure a card efficiency, but than say the important thing is to dig through your deck.
Don’t you realize the net gain = digging through your deck.
The higher the net gain.
The faster you are in digging through your deck.
Sophocles is equal to or less than Hau.
Sophocles net gain on average is +1.
Hau net gain on average is +2.
Think what your saying through.
Do I need to give an example to show this?
Let’s say you have 3 cards in your hand + 30 cards in deck.
The 3 cards in your hand are:
- 2x Ultra Balls
- 1x Sophocles
You use Sophocles to ditch these Ultra Balls.
Let’s say you draw 4 energies to keep this example simple.
Your deck now has 26 cards.
Now let’s change the 3 cards in your hand.
The 3 cards in your new hand are:
- 2x Ultra Balls
- 1x Hau
You still have same 30 card deck amount.
You use Hau which lets you draw 3 cards.
Let’s say the 3 cards you draw are energies to keep it the same as previous example.
Your deck now has 27 cards, but you still have further plays.
YOU CAN NOW USE 1 OF THE ULTRA BALLS YOU DITCHED WITH SOPHOCLES.
You use Ultra Ball to discard 2 energies to find a Pokémon.
Your deck now has 26 cards + 1 new Pokémon on your field.
Your Sophocles isn’t digging faster.
It is even or less!
Why? because it net gain is even or less than Hau.
Hau has just broken even with Sophocles.
Is it possible to dig past them?
The answer is Yes!
Remember the new Pokémon you put on your field?
It was Oranguru!
You have 2 cards in your hand
- 1x Ultra Ball
- 1x Energy
You can now activate Oranguru letting you draw 3rd card.
Deck Size = 25
Your now digging past them, but your not even close to stopping!
YOUR SECOND ULTRA BALL IS NOW LIVE!
The 2 copies they ditched are coming back with a vengeance.
Revenge is a meal best served cold.
You know who is coming don’t you?
The second Oranguru.
Why do decks sometimes run 2 copies of Oranguru?
In case 1 of them is prized.
This time it isn’t prized and we are going full stream ahead!
Deck Size = 24
THE SECOND BANANA MASTER IS LIVE!
Banana Master says draw 3 more cards please!
Thank you, Banana Master
Deck Size = 21
What do you think Audience?
Should I keep going or do you think they learned the lesson.
I could burn through that deck like it not even there.
I could make Hau seem like super star, but Hau isn’t a super star.
Hau only gives you 1 extra card compared to Sophocles.
The problem is the plays that 1 extra card is capable of making.
4- I believe Bowserluigi is a very good Pokémon player.
I have seen him give suggestions in the forums.
Most things he says is spot on.
I think he is just confused on how I am stating my argument.
The confusion is causing him to dismiss what I am saying.
This is normal reactions.
Bowserluigi know digging through your deck is very important.
The goal is to get the most cards as possible.
Bowserluigi knows this.
He just isn’t used to hearing people say the above statement in a “Nerdy Way”.
How many people go around saying they are looking for the best Net Gain? Not very many.
It’s like someone saying they are so hungry they want eat large amount of food.
Than you respond with “Oh, your looking to Gorge an Eloquent Cuisine.”
Than they respond with “No, man your wrong. I don’t know anyone named George. I’m just hungry.”
Bowserluigi will be ok.
He will figure out that we are saying the same thing.
He will laugh about it.
Than he will move on and everything will be fine.
5- The person who I think will not be ok is Aduitt.
Based on Aduitt deck list + comments on this forum, I think he will be the one to suffer.
Aduitt seems like a Intermediate Player to me.
Aduitt isn’t making beginner errors.
Aduitt is making tech. errors.
He is past the errors most beginners make.
He is making tech. errors which is seen more in Intermediate level.
Look at the card: Counter Catcher for example.
A beginner wouldn’t use Counter Catcher because they don’t understand the value of forcing out an opponents weaken Pokémon.
Aduitt understands the value!
He know forcing out the weaken Pokémon can help him kill the Pokémon.
Than he would get 1 or 2 Prize card.
It is a net gain of +1 or +2.
The only people capable of having enough knowledge to understand this is Intermediate to Advance level players.
The question is what separates the Intermediate player vs Advance player?
The Advance player will play Guzma!
Why? Because of 1 sentence on the Counter Catcher card.
“You can play this card only if you have more prize cards remaining than your opponent.”
This single line is what is separates Intermediate players from Advanced players!
Why? Let’s give an example to show you why.
In this example, you are a World Class Pokémon Advance player.
Your going to battle against a World Class Pokémon Advance player.
In order for your Counter Catcher to be active, Your opponent has to have a small edge!
What did Aduitt say “You want to be losing with this deck.”
Think about this example really hard!
You are a World Class player losing to your World Class opponent.
Now comes the question:
What will stop you from continuing to lose?
The opponent is World Class.
He will play flawlessly. TEXTBOOK
He will be using a deck studied, analyzed, and researched by millions of kids & adults.
You willingly gave this person a small edge.
The World Class Player will grab onto that small edge.
The World Class Player will hold onto it.
The World Class Player will never let it go, until they win.
Advance players don’t give there opponent anything.
Advance players don’t play catch up because the majority of the time you will never be able to catch back up.
You give another Advance player something and it was all they needed in order to win.
Guzma doesn’t give your opponent anything.
You don’t have to be losing or behind to play it.
This is why Advance players like it.
6- Sightseer is bad for this deck.
It is better for specific decks.
Hmmm...I have said enough for today.
Edited by Player_Jay, 05 July 2018 - 06:02 PM.
It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.