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OU7C4ST - Recent Card Value Guide Changes


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30 June 2018 - 01:25 PM

#21

marilli

    Rookie Trainer

  • marilli

Quite peculiar noticing that owners and members of "Trading Companies" who trade for massive profit like selling a Choice Band for a full pack are complaining that the guide is a scam. :D

 

He literally just goes through trades, posts his own trades at different price points, sometimes to the point of losing some value, to look at which trades go through really fast (then it obviously means he was asking for too little) or if it doesn't go through at all or only at the last minute (then he was asking for too much). In cases where there are active trades at both 22 and 23 like everyone's arguing, he will simply put the value at 22.5. It's how a lot of those 2.75 or 2.5 packs come from. 

He saves all his videos of him researching values, and uploads it online. If this kind of verifiable, scientific process isn't good enough, you are literally claiming that you dislike how everyone has even field of information and how you can't get a really good deal on unsuspecting newbies.

 

The guide's obviously not perfect, but its a good starting point to compare to the public trades.

Why can't people understand basic economics? Most of Lele's value comes from being able to play it. Most of the players who are looking to play competitive, already have a playset of Lele. There is obviously some influx of new players but it's doubtful that these new players can afford to trade for it day 1. Wealthy traders are the #1 source of demand for Tapu Lele, yet cannot play their 12th copy of Lele, and they are obviously not hurting to trade their packs - a superior trading currency - for a 13th Lele. With less demand, the price falls. 


Edited by marilli, 30 June 2018 - 01:29 PM.

  • 2

30 June 2018 - 07:46 PM

#22

Oldschool1990

    Veteran Trainer

  • Oldschool1990

Really appreciate this whole thing, big thumbs up from me! ;)

 


Why can't people understand basic economics?

 

 

 

It's called stock market, keeping valuable assets off the markets, thus increasing their rarity and increasing the price you can charge due to the higher demand it creates.


Edited by Oldschool1990, 01 July 2018 - 03:34 AM.

Specialized on Theme Deck Tournaments.

Contra principia negantem non est disputandum.

  • 2

01 July 2018 - 05:31 AM

#23

OU7C4ST

    Senior Trainer

  • OU7C4ST

In full disclosure, I'm the player who contacted Ou7c4st privately, which (very likely) prompted this thread a couple hours later.  On that date, I didn't agree (and still don't) that ALL XY-era packs were relegated to garbage status.  This makes it much harder for newer players who don't always have a stock of Guardians Rising packs.  In one day, almost all of them went to 0.33, which meant, for example, that Roaring Skies lost 50% value on a whim.

This is semi-incorrect. Guardians Rising value has gone up in the last couple of months. While some packs did lose a little more value over time, Guardians Rising instead of being raised to 1.25 on the guide (which the majority of the community agrees it went up to), the guide decided to just value GRI at 1.0, but adjusting around that instead. This means since GRI was kept at 1.0, instead of just being raised to 1.25, pack values had to be readjusted around it as well. I did this to make it easier on newcomers who wouldn't have to bust out a calculator for everything they looked up due to decimals.

Nothing lost value just because the Guide decided to keep GRI at 1.0 instead of raising it to 1.25.

Also, you can obtain most XY Packs 3:1 GRI quite easily. Meaning the value of them certainly sits around .33 for the most part. I agree though that more analysis is needed for us to get a more exact pinpoint on prices, so I've placed a warning in the mean time on top of the Card Value Guide.


Also, you completely stepped over my statement that I do not just randomly put prices down myself. That's absurd. Every price adjustment is based on what I find on the market. There are TONS of VoDs available showcasing me coming across things such as SR UB, etc. that have appeared to drop in value. I do not come up with values based on just mere decision of whatever I think it is. It's all based on what I find on the market. Please take the time next time to research where I get the information from. It's not hard to find me stating this on several social media platforms, along with streaming platforms where my titles consist of "Card Value Guide Updating". Join us for one perhaps in the future. I'm actually polling community opinions now on where they personally value other packs to GRI being at 1.0. Please partake in that forum post as well if you have the time.
 

Thanks!

Edit: Grammar


Edited by OU7C4ST, 01 July 2018 - 05:34 AM.

OU7C4ST - /r/ptcgo Head Moderator
Twitch's #1 PTCGO Streamer
Founder of OU7C4ST's Card Value Guide

Check out my YT for Deck Reviews, & More!

  • -2

01 July 2018 - 09:43 PM

#24

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay

This is semi-incorrect. Guardians Rising value has gone up in the last couple of months. While some packs did lose a little more value over time, Guardians Rising instead of being raised to 1.25 on the guide (which the majority of the community agrees it went up to), the guide decided to just value GRI at 1.0, but adjusting around that instead. This means since GRI was kept at 1.0, instead of just being raised to 1.25, pack values had to be readjusted around it as well. I did this to make it easier on newcomers who wouldn't have to bust out a calculator for everything they looked up due to decimals.

Nothing lost value just because the Guide decided to keep GRI at 1.0 instead of raising it to 1.25.

Also, you can obtain most XY Packs 3:1 GRI quite easily. Meaning the value of them certainly sits around .33 for the most part. I agree though that more analysis is needed for us to get a more exact pinpoint on prices, so I've placed a warning in the mean time on top of the Card Value Guide.

People telling you to increase the GRI pack price are fools!
All the cards in the pack have gone down in value.
You can’t increase the packs value if all the cards inside are decreasing.
It makes no logical sense.

As Oldschool previous point out, The logic being applied here is more to do with the Stock Market.
A pack comes into the market. If people like it, The pack rises.
The pack will eventually peek.
Than it begins to make a decline.

This is the way it is always done.
Prices rarely go up by themselves once they start the decline process.
It takes outside help to give the item a chance to increase.

For Example:

Let’s talk about a Game Company.
Xbox - PlayStation - Wii
What do the do?

They make a console which is new.
They have estimated price which they think it will sale for.
They put it in the market.
The market likes it!
The demand goes up.
The price of the console goes up.
Eventually, it will peek.
Than it starts it decline downward.
The object generally will always continue downward unless it gets help!

Smart companies know how to give it help!
How do you help it?
They release a new product that is an Attachment or Improves the old product!

The new product allows you to play in a 3D experince.
This helps the old product because people who want to try the 3D experince can’t achieve it with out the old product.

Thus, they would have to buy both.
The result is the old product rejuvenates it sales.

Now how does my example relate to GRI price?
Well the issue is GRI price has already been established.
It rose.
It peeked.
It falls.

The only way for it to go up when it is falling is to get rejuvenated similarly to my example.
The only way that can help is with new product(New Pack Release).
The new pack release has to attach or improve the old pack.
This did happen during the release of Forbidden Light pack.

Tapu Lele is a stable.
People were using Ultra Ball to search it.
The release of Forbidden Light gave a new card (Mysterious Treasure).
Decks with only Pyschic Pokémon could benefit from this change!
They could use MT discard 1 card vs UB discard 2 cards.
It’s an improvement!

Let’s say for argument sake that FL pack did cause a slight increase in GRI value.
Let’s say it increased 1.25.

The problem is this happen a month ago.
A month later, The Increase > Peek > Fall would have begun!
The price wouldn’t be at 1.25.
It would have gone down because time has gone by!

I feel Increasing the GRI at this point with out any cause is a No No.
It would only cause your guide to seem unreliable/suspicious.

We are at the start of July.
No new pack has come.
A new pack was released last month.
A new pack is supposed to release next month.

What can be said really?
You increase the value because of the Worlds Independence Day?
We won against the Aliens so we want to increase GRI value because we are excited!
Come it is a joke!

If I was you, I wouldn’t increase anything.
If they get upset, Tell them to “Let it go” like the movie Frozen!
Let go your desire to increase stuff!
Just let it go!

For the people who say, I traded a GRI pack for such & such value!
All I can say is good for you!
You traded with a person who party to hard.
The person you traded with couldn’t even speak his name let alone figure out what a good trade is!
Your trade was an exception to the rule, not the rule itself.
Let it go!

Edited by Player_Jay, 01 July 2018 - 09:50 PM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
  • 1

02 July 2018 - 12:02 AM

#25

T3muj1n7

    Junior Trainer

  • T3muj1n7
Except he is stating that the price has gradually increased.

As GUR is no longer being printed, and they are the strongest pack currently , demand is higher than supply. The guide now reflects this.

I apologise if I'm missing anything, it's difficult to take key messages from an endless wall of prose ;p

Edited by T3muj1n7, 02 July 2018 - 12:05 AM.

  • 1

02 July 2018 - 01:38 AM

#26

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay

Snip...

I apologise if I'm missing anything, it's difficult to take key messages from an endless wall of prose ;p

Yes, you completely missed it.
It went over your head.
However, it is ok!

You are correct in saying it is difficult.
It is difficult conveying thoughts into written form for others to understand.
Especially when you are a Shakespearean poet at heart.

To trade, or not to trade—that is the question:
Whether’tis Nobler in mind to trade
The card owned and the packs acquired
Or to peril a deal with a stranger
And to put oneself is grave danger
To be betrayed, to be robbed—
No more—and by robbed we mean to say
We were done wrong by another.
A wolf in sheeps clothing who we thought was fair
A deception used to strip us bare.
We cry, our heart cries, our soul cries.
For we was done wrong by a bother.
Robbed, Deceived, and Betrayed on our own device.
This is what we gravely fear.
Tis why we have all gathered here.
Pause.

Edited by Player_Jay, 02 July 2018 - 01:39 AM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
  • -2

04 July 2018 - 01:24 PM

#27

Frankie-Ashley

    Trainer

  • Frankie-Ashley

Except he is stating that the price has gradually increased.

As GUR is no longer being printed, and they are the strongest pack currently , demand is higher than supply. The guide now reflects this.

I apologise if I'm missing anything, it's difficult to take key messages from an endless wall of prose ;p

hi, so his raising gri (by lowering other packs)... because they stopped printing GRI packs.... so why hasnt the gri cards (leles and such) increased in price? dont seem logical to me... (not you) lol


  • 1

05 July 2018 - 10:46 AM

#28

T3muj1n7

    Junior Trainer

  • T3muj1n7
Value is a matter of perception, the general trend is that cards lose value over time, as more enter the game and initial hype wears off, so even staples like lele take a hit.

The perception of GUR is that it is strong, and so they are held in bulk as their value is perceived to be safe. You also cannot pull a tradable GUR pack from the store, in contrast, all three of my lele are trade locked.

As more players spend coins on GUR, so more lele are pulled, driving down demand and increasing supply should those replace their tradable copies.

This is the reason why lesser legacy sets were not hit as hard as the valuable ones, why open BW base when you can open COL?
  • 0

05 July 2018 - 08:43 PM

#29

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

The guide's complete value sheet is based on a 1:1 value, which I've placed GRI at 1.0, and adjusted all cards accordingly. If you would like to see the live-updates so you can understand that the Guide is based on current trends, and not setting the trends itself, you can sift through my recent VoDs on my primary streaming platform. It's all available for viewing. It has much input from the community, as it does showcasing current market value for cards.

I'm just one player, who knows that he doesn't have all the answers.  But I'm still uncomfortable with this statement (above).  Whether admitted or not, this is "setting the trends," not just following them.

To be trusted, a "price guide" should be fair and impartial.  A list of prices should reflect what's actually happening, NOT making changes to the system or injecting new methods.

If someone in the real world said, "the Chinese Yuan is now the official currency of the world," and adjusted the global economy based on that, it's likely that chaos and riots would follow.  That's just not the way the world works.

It's complicated in this virtual game, because you can't determine the exact value easily, especially when multiple booster packs are intermingled.  It all depends on what players need or want, and that fluctuates every single day.


Choosing a "standard currency" in this game, and "adjusting all cards accordingly" is a mistake.  Just like Pokémon did with Roaring Skies, it's very likely they'll do another print run of Guardians Rising.  What then?

It's disturbing to see key cards, like Tapu Lele GX, take a nosedive so drastically, in a very short period -- especially when it coincides with this complete overhaul.  It's artificial.


I'm going to be candid.  I've seen too many methods of price manipulation since I've been playing this game, by many recognized players.  Some of them have been exposed by speaking out in this forum.  Others are still at it.  We need to be aware.  I'm going to be watching, and now others will too.  If a new Trading Company opens (even several weeks or months from now), and these cards mysteriously rise again, expect some blowback.


Edited by RobRatt, 05 July 2018 - 09:02 PM.

  • 2

06 July 2018 - 08:36 AM

#30

OU7C4ST

    Senior Trainer

  • OU7C4ST

All I can say is my Guide Updates are recorded, live-streamed and archived if anyone ever wants to see how prices are determined, and researched they can look no further than my streaming platforms.

I may do some things differently, but I've never intended to do this on other people's terms as it was only created for my viewers, and small community to begin with. I'm truly humbled when I look at the wider aspect of things and see how many people have turned my guide into the 1-stop place for prices. I'm thankful for that, but I'm also not willing to bend to other people's demands on how they think or how they think the majority might want things to be.

I don't make money from doing it, nor do I get paid to do it either. If I ever decide to monetize it at all, it would just to help cover server costs that are monthly coming out of my pocket for the last couple of years or so anyways.

Anyways, It's all for fun for me. I make nothing from it. :)

 


Edited by OU7C4ST, 07 July 2018 - 04:51 AM.

OU7C4ST - /r/ptcgo Head Moderator
Twitch's #1 PTCGO Streamer
Founder of OU7C4ST's Card Value Guide

Check out my YT for Deck Reviews, & More!

  • 0

06 July 2018 - 11:53 AM

#31

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay
Yeah, RobRatt comes to the plate to do a grand slam out of the park.
I can’t help, but to agree with him.

The Red Highlighted statement does make me feel a little uncomfortable as well.
The sad part is I don’t think the blame can be put all on Outcast.

I feel some times the Pokémon community as a whole likes to place things on a pedestal.
They worship a pack or a card as if it is a Divine Deity sent from the heavens.
It’s a problem for sure.

Putting anything on high pedestal is a risky proposition.
If it falls from that pedestal, It has long way to go down.
It will do a lot damage.
It will break a lot of people hearts.
It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
  • 0

06 July 2018 - 05:54 PM

#32

poke_baepe

    Novice Trainer

  • poke_baepe

Don't listen to all the haters, you provide a valuable service. I was losing a ton of money till I found your guide and it's a great baseline at worst. Now I have more rare cards than I know what to do with! Keep up the great work and I would love it if you added me in game!


Edited by poke_baepe, 06 July 2018 - 05:55 PM.

  • 1

06 July 2018 - 07:40 PM

#33

OU7C4ST

    Senior Trainer

  • OU7C4ST

Don't listen to all the haters, you provide a valuable service. I was losing a ton of money till I found your guide and it's a great baseline at worst. Now I have more rare cards than I know what to do with! Keep up the great work and I would love it if you added me in game!

Feel free to add me. :)

Also, it's not that everyone is being a "hater" but just expressing their concerns. I always welcome feedback regardless it be positive or negative (As long as it is constructive, and not borderline harassment).

However, I just hope people realize that I do this for fun at the end of the day. People are free to use the guide, or not. If I set my Guide to use GRI or whatever else pack as the "Standard" pack for trading at 1:1, that's just how it's gonna be. I always try to adjust everything accordingly. What happens if GR gets reprinted, and/or lowers in price again? I'll just restructure, and change all the prices around the change again. It doesn't bother me to put in the work for something I enjoy doing. :)


Edited by OU7C4ST, 06 July 2018 - 07:40 PM.

OU7C4ST - /r/ptcgo Head Moderator
Twitch's #1 PTCGO Streamer
Founder of OU7C4ST's Card Value Guide

Check out my YT for Deck Reviews, & More!

  • 0

07 July 2018 - 05:51 PM

#34

poke_baepe

    Novice Trainer

  • poke_baepe

Your friends list is full :(

 

 

 

Feel free to add me. :)

Also, it's not that everyone is being a "hater" but just expressing their concerns. I always welcome feedback regardless it be positive or negative (As long as it is constructive, and not borderline harassment).

However, I just hope people realize that I do this for fun at the end of the day. People are free to use the guide, or not. If I set my Guide to use GRI or whatever else pack as the "Standard" pack for trading at 1:1, that's just how it's gonna be. I always try to adjust everything accordingly. What happens if GR gets reprinted, and/or lowers in price again? I'll just restructure, and change all the prices around the change again. It doesn't bother me to put in the work for something I enjoy doing. :)


  • 0

08 July 2018 - 09:39 PM

#35

poke_baepe

    Novice Trainer

  • poke_baepe

is the price on dawn wings RR current?


  • 0

09 July 2018 - 02:26 AM

#36

OU7C4ST

    Senior Trainer

  • OU7C4ST

is the price on dawn wings RR current?

 

It's currently listed at 6.5, but it's closer to 5.75 - 6.0 at the moment. Will be updated this next coming update that is scheduled on the website, or earlier if I get around to it.


OU7C4ST - /r/ptcgo Head Moderator
Twitch's #1 PTCGO Streamer
Founder of OU7C4ST's Card Value Guide

Check out my YT for Deck Reviews, & More!

  • 0

10 July 2018 - 03:46 PM

#37

Frankie-Ashley

    Trainer

  • Frankie-Ashley

so gri rising and lele and all other cards in the pack is falling.....  its not logical its borderline stupid.... is it rising because the pack now comes in galaxy foil???...

 

also gri rising but instead of raising it... you lower all other packs..... so new players or F(ish)2P players now find it harder to get gri.

 

so far all questions have just been answered with self promotion to other sites.


  • -1

12 July 2018 - 07:45 AM

#38

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay

so gri rising and lele and all other cards in the pack is falling..... its not logical its borderline stupid.... is it rising because the pack now comes in galaxy foil???...

also gri rising but instead of raising it... you lower all other packs..... so new players or F(ish)2P players now find it harder to get gri.

so far all questions have just been answered with self promotion to other sites.

Hahaha YES!

Guardian RISING and Tapu Lele FALLING

Don’t you know Rising is part of the pack name.
Of course, it will be Rising.

Don’t you know Tapu Lele is falling because more people acquire it over time.
Of course, it will be Falling.

What else would they be doing?
You Silly, Charizard!

I have sticker of Charizard on my Helmet.
I wear my Helmet because my mama say it keeps me safe!

Edited by Player_Jay, 12 July 2018 - 07:51 AM.

It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
  • 0

12 July 2018 - 09:57 AM

#39

T3muj1n7

    Junior Trainer

  • T3muj1n7

so gri rising and lele and all other cards in the pack is falling.....  its not logical its borderline stupid.... is it rising because the pack now comes in galaxy foil???...
 
also gri rising but instead of raising it... you lower all other packs..... so new players or F(ish)2P players now find it harder to get gri.
 
so far all questions have just been answered with self promotion to other sites.


Your argument would make perfect sense if tradable GRI packs were the only means of acquiring lele.

As this is not the case, the values of the two are not strictly linked.

I alluded to this in my earlier post which has been conveniently ignored.
  • 0

13 July 2018 - 04:05 AM

#40

Player_Jay

    Veteran Trainer

  • Player_Jay
The funny part is all of you are wrong (Frankie-Ashley, T3muj1n7, & Outcast)
You are wrong for the same reason.

A pack going up & cards inside the pack going down are not mutually linked.
It is because a person can do individual card trades.
They can trade with another person for the card with out ever opening/touching the pack.

If individuals card trades were not allowed, Than the pack + cards would be linked.
I gave an example of this before based on when Forbidden Light got released.
Mysterious Treasure help rejuvenate the Guardian Rising pack because it helped the staple Tapu Lele.

However, did you ever stop to think about Bellsprout?
Bellsprout is a Pokémon inside Guardian Rising.
Bellsprout didn’t gain any value.
Poor lil fella kept going down even though the pack + other cards went up.

^ This is why Frankie is more or less wrong.

But T3muj1n7 & Outcast is wrong to for same reason.

You want to raise the price of Guardian Rising
You want to increase the value because Guardian Rising is no longer being printed in Real Life.

The problem is GR in real life isn’t mutually linked to the GR in virtual game.
GR in real life lost supply because they are no longer being printed, but is true for the GR online?
No!

I can go to shop!
I can buy GR packs for 200 poke coins all day long.
My supply is endless.

—————————————————————————

What is going to happen is your going to have a Guide Market Crash. Lol
Your guide going to have to file for chapter 11.
It will be as bad as the Great **********.

You have decreased the values of all other packs.
Than you are thinking of increasing GR pack value.
You are setting a momumentous gap between GR Pack VS. Other Packs

Than the community is no longer going to honor the pack.
A pack that has lost it honor is nothing.

It like that old saying:
A 50 dollar bill is only 50 dollars because we all honor it.
We consider it to be that value.

As soon as it loses it honor, it is only a piece of paper with #’s on it.
It means absolutely nothing.

——————————————————————

I’m just exaggerating.
Your guide won’t have Guide Market Crash.
The worst that can happen is the community will not use your guide any more.
They will be like your values have gone loony toons.

However, I think it would be awesome if your guide did have Guide Market Crash.
I think it would be awesome to see!
Could you image going to your website.

Than boom it says Market Crash
Chapter 11 at the bottom.

The funny part is Frankie-Ashley would be the first 1 to post about it in forums.
He would have title callled “I told you so!”

Than he would say a speech that said something like below:

“I knew the Guide was bad for years. I try to warn others. Now it is gone. CALLED IT!”

That is to funny
It’s because it probably true.
I can just picture him doing it.
It is said that if Gengar is hiding, it cools the area by nearly 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
  • -1