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Game is Completely Unbalanced


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29 June 2018 - 09:40 AM

#21

Mod_Rowan

    Moderator

  • Mod_Rowan

Wow, there are lots of great replies here! It’s always nice to see the community helping each other! Stay awesome!


Moderator Rowan
Pokémon TCG Online Moderator

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03 July 2018 - 03:40 PM

#22

ElricDragonlord

    Novice Trainer

  • ElricDragonlord

so you are telling me as a new player, i have like 2 decks and you are ranking me in vs against people with GX cards with 180 HP against standard basic Pokemon...I have to back out or waste my time and get smoked... all the games i have played either i have blow someone out or they have demolished me. Please tell me how i am supposed to play this broken unbalanced games?

 

Don't rush into standard games. I played for two months before I could play into the ladder standard games with competitive (kind of) decks. And still I don't feel confident to play in the tournaments. Be patient, play a lot every day with the theme decks, it's kinda funny anyway, and you can use them to farm boosters in the single player mode. The worst of this game is that it's slow, the bright side is that it's a true free to play.


Edited by ElricDragonlord, 03 July 2018 - 06:28 PM.

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03 July 2018 - 05:10 PM

#23

Loof6

    Veteran Trainer

  • Loof6

I like the game balance.


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03 August 2018 - 05:05 PM

#24

mudkipmaster478

    Rookie Trainer

  • mudkipmaster478
[quote name="TayTay1986" post="597512" timestamp="1525099165"]so you are telling me as a new player, i have like 2 decks and you are ranking me in vs against people with GX cards with 180 HP against standard basic Pokemon... Yeah that could have been me lol. Was it a dawn wings? If so, than that was me. I'm new to this game too. That was like my 9th battle I have ever done. Sorry.
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27 December 2018 - 02:54 AM

#25

PrincesseLolaLF

    Rookie Trainer

  • PrincesseLolaLF
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one seeing how "pay to play" this "free" game is. How can you put me in a battle with "ultra beasts" with the mental might, or the "Alolan Trainer Kit" decks that I bought for my daughter and I to learn to play. You want to see the fastest way to lose new players.... well I'm giving this one more week, and I'm not spending a dime more. I refuse to spend money on something that is not fun for my daughter, who just loses all the time. I hope my frustration and disappoint comes across loud and clear.
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27 December 2018 - 03:43 AM

#26

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one seeing how "pay to play" this "free" game is. How can you put me in a battle with "ultra beasts" with the mental might, or the "Alolan Trainer Kit" decks that I bought for my daughter and I to learn to play.

You want to see the fastest way to lose new players.... well I'm giving this one more week, and I'm not spending a dime more. I refuse to spend money on something that is not fun for my daughter, who just loses all the time.

I hope my frustration and disappoint comes across loud and clear.

Honestly, if you know what you're doing you can build and play any deck that you please without spending a single cent. The problem is that a lot of new players get frustrated easily and choose to complain about everything and be happy with that instead of asking for advice, learning from it and enjoying the game once they've achieved a certain degree of mastery.

For starters, you should never take the default Theme Decks like Mental Might and play them in Standard or Expanded. Even in the Theme Deck format Mental Might is already garbage. What you, as a new player, should do instead is to save 500 Tokens (from doing Trainer Challenge, daily login rewards, and maybe just a few games with Mental Might in VS [Theme Deck category, do NOT clone this deck to use it in Expanded] ). At 500 Tokens, go to the shop and buy whatever happens to be the strongest Theme Deck at the time (Blazing Volcano, currently), and play that until you've learned the basics of the game (once more, you play this against other Theme Decks. Do NOT clone this deck to use it in Standard).

Later you can begin by making some budget decks in Standard. Example: Garchomp. Can do up to 230 damage in 1 turn, so you can OHKO big Stage 2 Pokemon GX. All you need to build it is to buy Mach Strike from the shop twice, which will cost you 1000 Tokens. Cloning the deck straight up is a bad idea, but several of its pieces can be used to create a pretty good deck. After that you only need a few more staple cards that you can ask for here in the forums.

So you CAN build decent, even good, decks without spending a cent. All you need is a positive outlook, patience and the willingness to learn. Just pasing the blame and saying that it's the game's fault for being unbalanced (it isn't) will not help you improve, it will only deepen your frustration. And, people are much more willing to help the new players when they show a possitive attitude rather than when they just throw complaint after complaint.

Also, this thread got ultra necro'd, but I guess that's besides the point xd

Edited by Sakura150612, 27 December 2018 - 03:47 AM.

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27 December 2018 - 04:25 AM

#27

Harion

    Senior Trainer

  • Harion

When I began, I thought GX cards were the strongest cards in this game. Then I played for a year and now I have the opinion it's the small cards that only give out one prize that will win you the game. I don't make decks with GX pokemon anymore. They give the opponent 2 prize cards while non-GX decks will outlast any GX decks simply because they can out prize the opponent.


  • 1

27 December 2018 - 10:53 AM

#28

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_

Wait, you are telling me there is actual strategy behind this game and cards with big numbers don't result in an auto-win for me? Shocking.

 

@Lola: It less about the money and more about the time you are willing to invest. If this is your first trading card game then the beginning might be a bit rough, simply because those games are usually not “pick and play” like other games. You need some time to learn mechanics, deck building, strategy and all the little bits and pieces that will help you succeed. Additionally, growing your collection is a huge part of the game and even though it looks a bit overwhelming in the beginning, if you stick to it you'll be able to wield a strong deck in no time.


The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

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27 December 2018 - 11:52 PM

#29

Otakutron

    Senior Trainer

  • Otakutron

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one seeing how "pay to play" this "free" game is. How can you put me in a battle with "ultra beasts" with the mental might, or the "Alolan Trainer Kit" decks that I bought for my daughter and I to learn to play. You want to see the fastest way to lose new players.... well I'm giving this one more week, and I'm not spending a dime more. I refuse to spend money on something that is not fun for my daughter, who just loses all the time. I hope my frustration and disappoint comes across loud and clear.

 

Did... did you not read the entire thread?   Yes, it can be annoying when you're mad and you want to vent to read through two pages of replies... but then again, that sounds like a great cooldown period, something to help you catch yourself in case you're making things harder for yourself than it needed to be. :)

 

One starts in the Theme Format. As soon as you can buy in game (Tokens, not $$$) whatever is the current best Theme Deck (I'd recommend Blazing Volcano as this exact moment) you'll have taken the first major step towards getting competitive in this TCG.  Focus on whatever Daily Challenges seem easy.  Don't stress if you cannot finish the Rewards Ladder.  Do get to the point you're comfortable playing in the online, in-game tournaments.  Any time you get a booster pack that is not "trade-locked", view it as "money".  Use those to trade for what you need.

 

Keep at it, maybe for weeks or months depending on how long you play, and you can build any competitive.  Some just take a long time... but those are decks using all of the expensive versions of cards (Full Arts, Secret Rares, etc.) or the handful of really rare competitive cards.  I've spent no money on the PTCGO, or even the physical TCG since the PTCGO began.  I only invest time.  I learned to grind, I learned to save, and I learned to trade.


Edited by Otakutron, 28 December 2018 - 12:04 AM.

If you do not have Private Messages enabled, it really limits you in discussing the Pokémon TCG. ;)

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28 December 2018 - 04:40 AM

#30

mholden020

    Rookie Trainer

  • mholden020

I started playing the TCG back in the 90s when the cards first came out (I was probably 9 years old or so), and I jumped into the online game this month.  So far I've had a great time with it and most of the games have brought back that fun I had as a child, but I would have to agree that there is a minor imbalance but not necessarily with the way Versus is structured.

 

The benchmark for new player imbalance is the MTG online game.  That game is absolutely ridiculous.  PTCG is structured in a way that new players can compete with the starting decks but they do have to be completely aware of what's going on.  I went on a multi-game win streak before I ever built or purchased a deck (I want to stress the fact that I haven't spent a dime on this game as of this writing!) using the provided starter decks so it is possible to compete with the average player.

 

However, I do feel there is a problem with the quantity of GX/EX cards allowed per deck.  I stopped playing the physical card game long before the EX and GX cards were introduced, so I've faced a major learning curve with these things and how they're played.  I've gotten it figured out, but I don't see a reason why any deck should be allowed more than 2 of either card per deck.  My most commonly-used deck has two GX cards in it to combat some of the decks that can fill an entire bench with these things, and even having two in the deck feels wrong on many levels.  I frequently see a lot of users begin play with a Basic GX card (which could be its own argument of imbalance), and I see quite a lot of users with 5 or more of these cards in a single game.  I've gotten to where I'll simply concede the game if they start filling up their bench with these cards because it just becomes silly. 

 

The GX/EX cards seem to be thing that should be a game-changing moment or a tide-turner for lop-sided games.  Instead they're just getting abused with decks full of the things which turns into a race to who can get their GX/EX card supplied the fastest with energy, which is just stupid to be honest.  It's not so much a strategic thing anymore and it causes matches to lose that aspect of the game.


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28 December 2018 - 05:09 AM

#31

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

I started playing the TCG back in the 90s when the cards first came out (I was probably 9 years old or so), and I jumped into the online game this month.  So far I've had a great time with it and most of the games have brought back that fun I had as a child, but I would have to agree that there is a minor imbalance but not necessarily with the way Versus is structured.

 

The benchmark for new player imbalance is the MTG online game.  That game is absolutely ridiculous.  PTCG is structured in a way that new players can compete with the starting decks but they do have to be completely aware of what's going on.  I went on a multi-game win streak before I ever built or purchased a deck (I want to stress the fact that I haven't spent a dime on this game as of this writing!) using the provided starter decks so it is possible to compete with the average player.

 

However, I do feel there is a problem with the quantity of GX/EX cards allowed per deck.  I stopped playing the physical card game long before the EX and GX cards were introduced, so I've faced a major learning curve with these things and how they're played.  I've gotten it figured out, but I don't see a reason why any deck should be allowed more than 2 of either card per deck.  My most commonly-used deck has two GX cards in it to combat some of the decks that can fill an entire bench with these things, and even having two in the deck feels wrong on many levels.  I frequently see a lot of users begin play with a Basic GX card (which could be its own argument of imbalance), and I see quite a lot of users with 5 or more of these cards in a single game.  I've gotten to where I'll simply concede the game if they start filling up their bench with these cards because it just becomes silly. 

 

The GX/EX cards seem to be thing that should be a game-changing moment or a tide-turner for lop-sided games.  Instead they're just getting abused with decks full of the things which turns into a race to who can get their GX/EX card supplied the fastest with energy, which is just stupid to be honest.  It's not so much a strategic thing anymore and it causes matches to lose that aspect of the game.

Then you've been left behind by the times. Pokemon EX and GX are nothing as special as you make it sound. There are plenty of non-GX attackers that can do as much (if not more) damage than Pokemon GX, and for that very same reason their high HP ends up being irrelevant in several matchups. If you had more experience with (and knowledge of) the modern game, you'd quickly realize just how hard some GX decks lose to non-GX decks because they both OHKO each other, but the GX deck gives double prizes.

 

If you want a specific example of how small Pokemon can do big damage, I have a certain demonic, little 30 HP spider that can do 200 damage on the first turn with a single energy that wants to say hi. Decks with spread damage or heavy control cards can still give it trouble, but for the most part the EX/GX decks that can't do either of those just lose straight up because they only take 1 prize for every 2 that I take. There are plenty of other good examples, but I'll just leave you here my favorite one. 

 

With regards to your suggested "solution", only 2 GX or EX per deck would be a ridiculous restriction. Most decks, GX or not, require several copies of their main attacker (so either 3 or 4), so a bunch of decks would become completely useless with that limitation. The only GXs that would still see any play would be the ones with utility like Zoroark-GX. You would also severely limit the possibility of using supporting Pokemon EX/GX that improve the consistency of decks like Shaymin-EX, Tapu Lele-GX, Alolan Ninetales-GX and the upcoming Dedenne-GX, because they'd take up your entire EX/GX count.

 

There is literally nothing unbalanced with Pokemon EX/GX, and I fail to see why anyone with at least some knowledge on the game would think otherwise. I'll give completely new players a pass, but you should know better. Because of the power creep, despite being slightly more durable than non-EX/GX, they can still be easily OHKOd (or at most, 2HKOd). Even if it took the non-EX/GX player 2 turns to KO a 200+ HP Pokemon that's still an even prize trade, leaving it up to the player with better board control to claim the game regardless of who's the one playing EXs and GXs and who isn't.

 

Obtaining Pokemon EX and GX is nothing special either. Admittedly Tapu Lele-GX is pretty expensive, but that aside, unless you go out of your way to make an expensive deck you really shouldn't have that much trouble finding decent Pokemon EX/GX for a reasonable price.

 

You just have to adapt to modern times. The 90's are long gone by now buddy, and they ain't coming back. Welcome to 2019 (soonTM).


Edited by Sakura150612, 28 December 2018 - 05:18 AM.

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28 December 2018 - 05:14 AM

#32

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

However, I do feel there is a problem with the quantity of GX/EX cards allowed per deck.  I stopped playing the physical card game long before the EX and GX cards were introduced, so I've faced a major learning curve with these things and how they're played.  I've gotten it figured out, but I don't see a reason why any deck should be allowed more than 2 of either card per deck.

I understand what you're trying to say.  But you've got to realize (and admit) that the game has always been this way.  That's the point.  Ever since the first Haymaker and Rain Dance decks (circa 1999), the better players stack their decks with ONLY the best available cards for their strategy.  Again, that's the point!

 

Anyone who owns a fistful of EX or GX cards should never be expected to limit themselves.  It's hard enough to play against the luck factor, so many choices, your opponent's skill level, and the ease of copying good decks, even for mediocre players (aka net-decking).  EX & GX cards are already penalized by a 2-Prize disadvantage when they're knocked out.  ...Not to mention the tremendous effort and time it takes to gather these cards.

 

Do you really expect someone to play for an "equal opportunity" experience?  ...Why should those who enjoy winning be made to feel guilty?  Inversely, should every deck be required to have at least a couple cards that totally suck, that don't fit properly, just to soothe feelings?


Edited by RobRatt, 28 December 2018 - 05:22 AM.

  • 1

29 December 2018 - 12:14 AM

#33

grommpy

    Rookie Trainer

  • grommpy
There is an ingame economy for constructed decks. Not for theme decks, which are quite balanced and fun to play.

Some GX EX pokemon are powerful and you can put up to 4 in a deck, but there are non-GX EX alternatives that perform well. So it's hard to maintain Pokemon TCGO is pay-to-win. At the very top level of constructed perhaps, but if your experience is Mental Might against Theme decks, or playing Constructed without a healthy collection, without experience of how to beat GX, EX, then yes, you may get the wrong impression.

As a new player, I also found the versus challenge daunting using just the 3 basic decks and mental might. Until I took that first step to buy a theme deck. Perhaps the game should encourage that more in the tutorials or trainer challenges.

It also doesn't help that there is little good content on ******* to help new players. You have to dig a little on reddit for a basic constructed deck that performs well in terms of supporting trainers, or read these forums. These things can be made more user friendly, for sure.
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29 December 2018 - 09:12 PM

#34

SuperStone

    Elite Trainer

  • SuperStone

snip

Ah, you're coming from the classic era of real pokemon!  When you didn't need to be shiny or full-art or have some special rules to make you competitive.  I too sometimes wish that we could do away with all the fancy stuff and just have normal stage twos fighting normal stage ones.

 

But I also really like the added strategy of two prize-giving types, the increased consistency of powerful basics, and the certainty that some non-GX pokemon who are truly the best will survive.  I also like higher HP numbers, which increases the possible ways a KO can be taken; and the vast number of exotic strategies wall-like EXs&GXs can provide.

 

Though I still don't understand why they all have to be so foily and shiny. :P


The truth waits for no one.  That which you refuse to see, TPCi, slips past you.  The chat function was never your problem, yet through your blindness, you have made it one.

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30 December 2018 - 08:09 PM

#35

mholden020

    Rookie Trainer

  • mholden020

I understand what you're trying to say.  But you've got to realize (and admit) that the game has always been this way.  That's the point.  Ever since the first Haymaker and Rain Dance decks (circa 1999), the better players stack their decks with ONLY the best available cards for their strategy.  Again, that's the point!

 

Anyone who owns a fistful of EX or GX cards should never be expected to limit themselves.  It's hard enough to play against the luck factor, so many choices, your opponent's skill level, and the ease of copying good decks, even for mediocre players (aka net-decking).  EX & GX cards are already penalized by a 2-Prize disadvantage when they're knocked out.  ...Not to mention the tremendous effort and time it takes to gather these cards.

 

Do you really expect someone to play for an "equal opportunity" experience?  ...Why should those who enjoy winning be made to feel guilty?  Inversely, should every deck be required to have at least a couple cards that totally suck, that don't fit properly, just to soothe feelings?

 

Thanks Rob for this response.  You, Sakura, and SuperStone made me go looking at how the game has changed since the original days and I found that watching recent Championship matches looked like a completely different game from one from 20 years ago. Gathering up some of the info from around the web I've built an entirely new deck to meet today's game and I've found matches to be much easier to handle.  In one match I even took out the Jirachi Prism Star card before it could wipe out any of mine, so that alone is progress.

 

I disagree that the game has always been this way.  Yes, the original series of cards had very powerful Pokemon in it and any deck worth its salt had them in it, but those all came with a pretty sharp cost to being powerful.  Most of these GX cards don't really have a turn-by-turn drawback, instead having a "Draw 2 prizes" liability, so if you can beat your opponent in the setup race you can just spam your big attack and clear the board.  The old-school fun and strategy only shows up if you and your opponent can match each other in setup and actually have a battle.

 

We literally have a topic right here that started with the question, "Please tell me how I am supposed to play this broken unbalanced game" and referenced the GX cards.  Some web searching can turn up similar results, such as "Are GX/EX cards ruining the game?", and "Do you think GX cards are too powerful?".  I have a friend who I talked into getting this game at the same time I started back who just said to me "F*** that Lunala GX card, I'm done.  Dude had two prisms and 3 GX cards in play", so there's an example of someone who was completely run off by how unbalanced this game can be towards new players.  This person, like me, has been a fan of the franchise since it started in the 90s so being able to run off a 20-year fan is an amazing accomplishment.  What about those who don't have 20 years under their belt to keep them going like I did and have some kind of drive to figure it out?  Like Rob said: it takes a long time to get these cards and as long as we can use them we will.  As long as we use them in relatively large amounts, there will always be the players who are turned away by it because of the daunting task of gathering the cards to be competitive.

 

I don't expect anyone to play for the fairness of others at all.  It's a competition, so everyone who aims to be remotely successful at something should be looking for the best way to unbalance everything in their favor and, right now, these cards can be what does that.  It's nothing to feel guilty about, it's within the rules and should be played that way.  However, the people in charge of the rules have to realize that it can also put a massive strain on new players, as well as hurt the image of the game itself.  The reality is that this is how the game is played right now, we can all agree on that.


  • 0

30 December 2018 - 09:44 PM

#36

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_






I disagree that the game has always been this way. Yes, the original series of cards had very powerful Pokemon in it and any deck worth its salt had them in it, but those all came with a pretty sharp cost to being powerful. Most of these GX cards don't really have a turn-by-turn drawback, instead having a "Draw 2 prizes" liability, so if you can beat your opponent in the setup race you can just spam your big attack and clear the board. The old-school fun and strategy only shows up if you and your opponent can match each other in setup and actually have a battle.


First things first, you compare two entirely unrelated things here.



I was 7 when the original cards where released in Europe and I can safely say that we barely understood the rules and even if we did, due to limited access to cards we would have been stuck with playing the starter decks anyway. Playing in a small group, buying a booster pack every once in a while and gradually upgrading your deck, those are the things that drew me into Yu-Gi-OH and then Magic a couple of years later. However, those experiences only work in a small circle outside of the grand ecosystem of those games.

Look back at the initial Pokemon set: The best decks back then were broken as ****, yet you'd probably never know, since your small bubble wasn't content with playing tournaments and the thought of owning 4 copies of a card like Blastoise wouldn't have crossed your mind in 100 years.



The game has gone through various iterations since then, but the core principal of deck building hasn't changed since then. What you are experiencing now is simply the bigger picture, that you haven't been able to perceive in your secluded childhood bubble.

Your “old-school fun” is an illusion.








We literally have a topic right here that started with the question, "Please tell me how I am supposed to play this broken unbalanced game" and referenced the GX cards. Some web searching can turn up similar results, such as "Are GX/EX cards ruining the game?", and "Do you think GX cards are too powerful?". I have a friend who I talked into getting this game at the same time I started back who just said to me "F*** that Lunala GX card, I'm done. Dude had two prisms and 3 GX cards in play", so there's an example of someone who was completely run off by how unbalanced this game can be towards new players. This person, like me, has been a fan of the franchise since it started in the 90s so being able to run off a 20-year fan is an amazing accomplishment. What about those who don't have 20 years under their belt to keep them going like I did and have some kind of drive to figure it out? Like Rob said: it takes a long time to get these cards and as long as we can use them we will. As long as we use them in relatively large amounts, there will always be the players who are turned away by it because of the daunting task of gathering the cards to be competitive.




Grommpy hit the nail on the head in his last post: The problem isn't that GX cards are too strong. The real problem lies in the lack of any real tutorial for new players. Trying to find decent information about deck building, which budget cards are viable and much more isn't easily found and usually scattered towards various platforms.

Essential parts of the game (i.e. why certain cards are “locked”, how the trade works, etc.) are never explained and hence a lot of beginners leave in frustration, since the game throws you into the wild with no guide on how to survive.



That being said, I also have to scold a lo of beginners for taking the easy way out. While everyone is entitled to complain about how unfair GX/EX cards are, the same energy is much better spend on actually trying to get good at the game. This forum alone provides tons of great articles, deck guides, strategy breakdowns and helpful people who'll guide new players on their first steps.

I'm always happy when I see someone like Harion, whose perception of the game has completely changed, because that proves that your initial impression is probably not accurate and upon reflecting on your own deck you'll find tons of room for improvement.



If TCGs are not your friends cup of tea that's fine, but I can say with the utmost of confidence that his deck was probably badly designed (you can get the core of a decent deck pretty much for free, so there is really no excuse)

and that he wasn't at a level where he should have moved from the Theme deck format to constructed just yet.

The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

  • 3

30 December 2018 - 11:56 PM

#37

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi
Last time I checked, Scyther, Electabuzz, Hitmonchan etc don't have 'sharp costs to being powerful' (sry quoting a specific line is a pain on mobile)
  • 0

31 December 2018 - 11:17 PM

#38

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

EDIT: Nvm, I misunderstood what mholden meant to say xd

 

The problem is that you still think that the game is unbalanced, even if you changed your perspective a tiny bit. There is a difference between not having "strong cards" to build a competitive deck, and plain out not knowing how to build a deck. There are a lot of things you can do without a single Prism Star, EX or GX, and thinking that there cards are OP just because they have the "GX" or whatever tag usually just shows that the person making that comment doesn't know what they're talking about (no offense).

I mean, just look at the example you gave:

In one match I even took out the Jirachi Prism Star card before it could wipe out any of mine, so that alone is progress.

This card is absolute garbage, and anyone who uses it is either meming or just doesn't know any better. This card is only useful in your prizes (90% chance on any given game that you won't prize it. Any card with only a 10% reliability should be seen as trash). As an attacking card it's beyond terrible. For 3 energies, all it does is a miserable 10 damage. The insta-KO condition is useless because switching out nullifies the effect (Guzma, Switch, Escape Rope, or straight up paying the retreat cost). All you're doing by playing this card is giving your opponent a free prize. KOing one of these is nothing to brag about.

I really, really don't want to say this as a way of bringing you down; it's quite the opposite, actually. I think this proves that you (and your friend who gave up way too fast) are simply lacking knowledge, which anyone can obtain with a bit of patience, time and experience. Meaning, that you can improve to the point of these "OP" not seeming so OP anymore if you just try to learn a little from those with more experience. Once you really learn more about the current game, you'll see that GXs and Prism Stars are nothing special at all.

Most of these GX cards don't really have a turn-by-turn drawback, instead having a "Draw 2 prizes" liability.

You see, giving 2 prizes instead of 1 is a massive drawback. The good GX cards have enough strong points to be worth giving 2 prizes when KO'd, but even those have bad matchups or scenarios where they simply can't keep up with the prize race. You have to realize that the power creep has reached a level where even non-GX Pokemon are capable of dishing out 180+ damage, which can automatically lose you games if all you have in your deck is GX cards with no control tools to stop big, non-GX decks from setting up. Just look at decks like Granbull in Standard or Night March in Expanded; a Stage 1 and Basic Pokemon (respectively) that can actually OHKO GX cards using a single energy attachment without much effort.

Like I wrote farther up, there's a difference between not owning "powerful cards" like GXs, and not knowing how to deckbuild at all. With proper deckbuilding, non-GX decks can give a good fight (or maybe even stomp, depending on the matchup) a full GX deck.

We literally have a topic right here that started with the question, "Please tell me how I am supposed to play this broken unbalanced game" and referenced the GX cards. Some web searching can turn up similar results, such as "Are GX/EX cards ruining the game?", and "Do you think GX cards are too powerful?". I have a friend who I talked into getting this game at the same time I started back who just said to me "F*** that Lunala GX card, I'm done. Dude had two prisms and 3 GX cards in play", so there's an example of someone who was completely run off by how unbalanced this game can be towards new players. This person, like me, has been a fan of the franchise since it started in the 90s so being able to run off a 20-year fan is an amazing accomplishment. What about those who don't have 20 years under their belt to keep them going like I did and have some kind of drive to figure it out? Like Rob said: it takes a long time to get these cards and as long as we can use them we will. As long as we use them in relatively large amounts, there will always be the players who are turned away by it because of the daunting task of gathering the cards to be competitive.

I'm sorry to say this, but these EX/GX complaint threads have all been created by people who are barely a few days or week into the game who are posting on the forum for their first time (and who clearly didn't lurk enough before posting). While at first it would seem that the common denominator is that more experienced players (who would presumably own better cards) don't complain, the real common denominator is that players who have no experience or knowledge at all are complaining that the game is too hard for them before they even put any effort into learning how to play. If your idea of deckbuilding is throwing a bunch of the cards you own together without a single thought for consistency or strategy, you're obviously going to lose against a lot of decks (GX or not). The few who end up being brave enough to share their decklists when asked, they almost always end up being terrible lists (this IS to their benefit though, as they usually improve a ton with just a little bit of basic advice from the more experienced players).

In fact, I'd be willing to bet 5 LOT packs (that's the only packs I've got left xd) that the problem is in you and your friend have is in your basic deckbuilding and not in your lack of GX cards. If you want to, go ahead and share it. I'm sure that it can be improved a lot without adding many (or any) GX cards or Prism Star cards.

I don't expect anyone to play for the fairness of others at all. It's a competition, so everyone who aims to be remotely successful at something should be looking for the best way to unbalance everything in their favor and, right now, these cards can be what does that. It's nothing to feel guilty about, it's within the rules and should be played that way. However, the people in charge of the rules have to realize that it can also put a massive strain on new players, as well as hurt the image of the game itself. The reality is that this is how the game is played right now, we can all agree on that.

And this is the problem that acts as a mental block for a lot of new players. They convince themselves that the game is unbalanced, and because of that they never improved. It's a self-fulfilled prophesy of sorts.

Felidae is absolutely right in saying that there is no proper tutorial in the game. The one that exists teaches you the bare minimum with regards to the rules of the game, but it teaches you nothing about actually making a deck that works (and maybe even encourages you to build garbage decks by using garbage decks itself). So your real tutorial ends up being talking with more experienced players, getting advice from them and putting it into practice. I don't think I need to explain any further why GX cards aren't OP (I've elaborated on that plenty already), but I can tell you that when new players get past that mentality, they get a LOT better at this game just by being armed with that knowledge.

In the end, it's up to you what you do with all of this stuff we're telling you, but I'll remind you one last time that the best thing any new player can do is to abandon this "X is OP" mentality and learn how to play properly. The veterans in this forum will help you achieve that, but only if you have the will to do it.


Edited by Sakura150612, 05 January 2019 - 11:33 PM.

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01 January 2019 - 02:56 AM

#39

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

There isn't really a valid reason for players to complain about EX cards (and now GX) making the game unbalanced.  They're not overpowered as a rule, at least against good decks, or other EX & GX cards.  There's also not much cause to claim, "I liked old school Pokémon much better."  Geez, EX cards have been part of the game for over 15 years now, ...something like 2003.  If you're not used to it by now, you haven't been actively playing or collecting.

Personally, I understand the frustration.  It's quite a challenge to (1) figure out which are the best decks, and (2) find and/or purchase all the cards necessary.  But this game isn't for everyone.  It takes commitment, and a lot of time.  Still, that's no reason to claim it's unfair if you're new to the game.  Either you enjoy it, and want the challenge, or you don't?  Feeling "cheated" because you don't have a complete set from Day 1 is selfish and unrealistic.

If someone asked me, "Is this game unbalanced?" or "Should the developers rethink these cards?," I would definitely answer yes.  But for different reasons.  I'm tired of all the garbage cards filling these mammoth sets.  Please, if they need to fix anything, to make it easier for new players, and old, is to streamline the upcoming sets.  Quit filling the booster packs with 80% garbage, so we can actually build good decks with limited resources.


Edited by RobRatt, 01 January 2019 - 03:16 AM.

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01 January 2019 - 05:41 PM

#40

SuperStone

    Elite Trainer

  • SuperStone

Geez, EX cards have been part of the game for over 15 years now, ...something like 2003.

                             I

Edit- Scroo dat! v

Well, the original 'ex's weren't any good.  They've only really been competitive since Next Destinies- though that's still 6 years. (2019-2012=7.  wait what- HAPPY NEW YEAR!)

If someone asked me, "Is this game unbalanced?" or "Should the developers rethink these cards?," I would definitely answer yes.  But for different reasons.  I'm tired of all the garbage cards filling these mammoth sets.  Please, if they need to fix anything, to make it easier for new players, and old, is to streamline the upcoming sets.  Quit filling the booster packs with 80% garbage, so we can actually build good decks with limited resources.

Completely agree with this!

I mean, just look at the example you gave: This card is absolute garbage, and anyone who uses it is either meming or just doesn't know any better. This card is only useful in your prizes (90% chance on any given game that you won't prize it. Any card with only a 10% reliability should be seen as trash). As an attacking card it's beyond terrible. For 3 energies, all it does is a miserable 10 damage. The insta-KO condition is useless because switching out nullifies the effect (Guzma, Switch, Escape Rope, or straight up paying the retreat cost). All you're doing by playing this card is giving your opponent a free prize. KOing one of these is nothing to brag about.

*sniff sniff* Do I smell rotom tricks?  Hmm...  Unlimited may have a new monster on its hands!


Edited by SuperStone, 02 January 2019 - 01:34 AM.

The truth waits for no one.  That which you refuse to see, TPCi, slips past you.  The chat function was never your problem, yet through your blindness, you have made it one.

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