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Evolution Build Mode


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25 April 2018 - 01:26 PM

#1

TimeComa

    Novice Trainer

  • TimeComa

Greetings Pokemon TCG Players, 

 

I really like building my own decks and throwing them into play to see how they go but the modes available ( correct me if i'm wrong ) in my experience seem to focus greatly on EX & GX cards. I have so many cards that will never get any play time because of the builds out there using these cards. I enjoy Expanded Mode but i just don't understand why there isn't a build option that focuses on the greatest thing about pokemon. I'm talking about "Evolving" , Why isn't there a build option that focuses on evolving? A question i ask myself almost everytime i play. So, my question here is, Does Anyone else wish for this to? A build where EX & GX are not allowed and we can confidently put a pokemon that can evolve 2 or 3 or 4 times without worrying about something like a LuigiaEX Double Energy boom your knocked out just before you can put the last evolution on.

 

Am i the only one who would like to use such a build? I don't know, I hope not.

 

What do you say?


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25 April 2018 - 03:26 PM

#2

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi

There are also stage 1 and stage 2 GXes you know...

 

Way back in the days of the base set the most dominant archetype (Haymaker) doesn't evolve at all, instead capitalizing on basics with high HP, respectable attack costs and power. Sounds familiar?

 

Also banning EX/GX is not the answer. Those Greninjas and Rainbow Roads will still laugh at you. Btw Lugia EX, while good in the past, is now an obsolete EX due to the presence of Tapu Lele GX which has pretty much the same attack but has a very good ability as well.

 

The modes do not focus on EX/GX. It is true that pretty much any meta deck will have at least one GX (probably Lele if nothing else), but there is a reason why those EX/GX are played. For a card to be playable, it needs to have one or more of these attributes:

 

1. Deal lots of damage for respectable energy cost. Many cards in PTCG lack this. Most do too little damage for the energy cost required while some like Charizard GX have the damage but have a steep energy cost that's too difficult to pay for.

 

2. Able to withstand massive hits, and contribute something meaningful to the team. Lunala is a bad GX even though it has bulk cuz it doesn't contribute enough for a stage 2, as its attack is too weak and its ability is insufficient support for a stage 2. Meanwhile, Wailord EX, who has the same amount of HP, is a basic (thus far easier to get out compared to Lunala GX), and is part of an annoying archetype of stall decks. 

 

3. Able to offer sufficient support to the team. E.g. Magnezone can accelerate metal energies quickly to Dusk Mane Necrozma GX to pay for its costly Meteor Tempest attack which has OHKO potential. Tapu Lele GX can search the deck for a supporter. Oranguru/Octillery can draw extra cards. Meanwhile, Alolan Sandslash with Slush Rush, though it draws cards as well, draws too little (only one card compared to up to 5 for octillery), thus it offers very little support and thus not worth playing.

 

4. Have some special trait that makes them worth playing against the meta. E.g. Alolan Ninetales and Hoopa for their immunity to EX/GX. Mewtwo/Mew EX can hit Buzzvole GX (a popular meta card) for weakness. 

 

Every pokemon card in the meta has at least one of these traits. The majority of cards in PTCG simply lack any sort of trait that makes them worth playing over the meta cards.

 

I recommend you take a look at Greninja BREAK. No other meta deck evolves as much as it does. Yet it is potentially far more annoying to face than any GX deck.


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25 April 2018 - 05:48 PM

#3

TimeComa

    Novice Trainer

  • TimeComa

Hi BowserLuigi, ok, so, Luigi EX was just used as a reference/example. So what if EX,GX and Break cards were not allowed.

 

The reason i posted this was because there are so many pokemon cards that will never get used and thought maybe there is a solution to utilise cards that are just well, collecting dust.

If this is an insufficient option i welcome other ideas, why not give developers something to ponder.

I'm just kinda getting bored with playing against the same decks, same pokemon cards over and over.

 

thanx for your response BowserLuigi, i did forget about break cards when i posted this, lol.


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26 April 2018 - 02:13 AM

#4

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi

Hi BowserLuigi, ok, so, Luigi EX was just used as a reference/example. So what if EX,GX and Break cards were not allowed.

The reason i posted this was because there are so many pokemon cards that will never get used and thought maybe there is a solution to utilise cards that are just well, collecting dust.
If this is an insufficient option i welcome other ideas, why not give developers something to ponder.
I'm just kinda getting bored with playing against the same decks, same pokemon cards over and over.

thanx for your response BowserLuigi, i did forget about break cards when i posted this, lol.

If all the good cards get banned, previously not-so-good cards will take their place and become the new good cards and the whole thing starts all over again. That's just how TCGs work.

I understand where you're getting at but honestly something like banning this card or that card is not gonna work. The game only bans super broken and unhealthy cards like lysandre's trump card and forest of giant plants.

Banning breaks is silly when there is like only 1 BREAK worth using (yanmega break used to be amazing but with forest of giant plants banned now it's not that great anymore). In fact, I don't see why people see breaks as overly powerful when they are essentially just another evolution.

EDIT: Or make that 2 BREAKS if you count Zoroark BREAK which has kinda fallen out of favor due to its incompatibility with Zoroark GX but it is by no means an awful BREAK.

Edited by BowserLuigi, 26 April 2018 - 05:08 AM.

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26 April 2018 - 07:11 AM

#5

Toklopo

    Senior Trainer

  • Toklopo

Xerneas and Carbink BREAK are also decent atm.


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26 April 2018 - 09:35 AM

#6

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi

Xerneas and Carbink BREAK are also decent atm.


True. Kinda forgotten about them
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26 April 2018 - 12:47 PM

#7

SandaledOtter

    Elite Trainer

  • SandaledOtter

In any case, as has been said before, EX and GX aren't the problem, and removing them isn't a solution. Garchomp/Lucario is holding its own on the ladder right now against the latest GX cards, and it isn't the only way to go. Ban Dragon, ban Fairy, ban Darkness, ban everything that allows multiple energies to be played... and then Greninja is still there.


"Swishonk!" That's what's happening!

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26 April 2018 - 11:27 PM

#8

SingingFlyEx

    Trainer

  • SingingFlyEx

TPCi just design lots of cards that are useless for competitive play.

You may seek to play them but that's going against design.

You may drop in rank by losing a lot until you can play the weak decks you want to play in versus, or you can play whatever decks you want with your friends.


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04 May 2018 - 04:19 PM

#9

TimeComa

    Novice Trainer

  • TimeComa

OK, so i'm not talking of exclusively banning cards, i keep seeing explanations of why Banning EX/GX and Break cards won't work and people seem to focus on the word Ban, We have Expanded build mode etc.. for All cards pretty much, yes? but what i'm trying to get at is, what i'd like to see ALREADY EXISTS yet we don't have the build mode to do it ourselves. The type of build i'm talking about is THEME DECKS. Not creating theme decks ourselves but a mode which follows the same rules and regulations as the THEME DECKS.They have no GX/EX or break cards available, so if this idea would, in a lot of peoples opinions, not work, have you played with the theme decks?

 

I believe in my opinion we could create decks utilising alot of cards which currently are well, as i said earlier, dust collectors.

 

Food For Thought.

 

Thankyou to everyone for there comments, it's great people can have an opinion, keep it up there are so many posts and conversations to join and have your say in.


Edited by TimeComa, 04 May 2018 - 04:27 PM.

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04 May 2018 - 04:58 PM

#10

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi

OK, so i'm not talking of exclusively banning cards, i keep seeing explanations of why Banning EX/GX and Break cards won't work and people seem to focus on the word Ban, We have Expanded build mode etc.. for All cards pretty much, yes? but what i'm trying to get at is, what i'd like to see ALREADY EXISTS yet we don't have the build mode to do it ourselves. The type of build i'm talking about is THEME DECKS. Not creating theme decks ourselves but a mode which follows the same rules and regulations as the THEME DECKS.They have no GX/EX or break cards available, so if this idea would, in a lot of peoples opinions, not work, have you played with the theme decks?

 

I believe in my opinion we could create decks utilising alot of cards which currently are well, as i said earlier, dust collectors.

 

Food For Thought.

 

Thankyou to everyone for there comments, it's great people can have an opinion, keep it up there are so many posts and conversations to join and have your say in.

How would you define the rules? If it's just no EX/GX/break, then it's pretty much just Theme v2 with all the Modified Mach Strikes that will be flying around. No four copies of any non-common card? Uh... I'm still seeing Mach Strike.... Must have at least 18 energy? Must not have more than 2 special energy? Must have no more than 2 Sycamores/Cynthias? Must have ... ehh... you get the idea.

 

Uhh... seems far too much trouble for what its worth to me. If the dominance of Mach Strike currently and Primal Crushing Current in the past isn't a testament to what an EX/GX/break-free format would look like, I don't know what is.


Edited by BowserLuigi, 04 May 2018 - 04:58 PM.

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05 May 2018 - 12:25 AM

#11

SingingFlyEx

    Trainer

  • SingingFlyEx

What's your goal?

If it's to let people enjoy pokémon tcg while not spending too much on it, you'd put a limit like at most 2 cards of holo rarity and 4 rares, the rest is common and uncommon cards. This could be a great idea as a school activity. You wouldn't get anything like theme decks though, you'd have ~10 draw supporters, lots of balls etc.


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22 May 2018 - 03:35 AM

#12

TimeComa

    Novice Trainer

  • TimeComa

Thanx for everyones comments, much appreciated. If i did have a goal it would be to have a build mode based on the same principles as the Theme decks, yes i understand that it would probably have alot of Mach Strike type alternative builds but lets be honest that is going to happen in any build type created, why, for some reason for those people it's all about winning, and that's ok. For someone like myself, i like the long game where winning come downs to 1 attack for both players. These type of games where my deck and the competitors deck were well balanced against one another have been my most memorable, exiting and fun games playing pokemon. Look through your pokemon cards, count how many of them you've never used, that's what i'm getting at. How can we put those cards into play? I don't know but an idea is better than nothing and maybe someone out there can think, i know how we could do that.

 

Cheers all and happy Pokemoning


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02 June 2018 - 09:24 PM

#13

Debby_Saurus

    Rookie Trainer

  • Debby_Saurus

I tend to play with my girlfriend against each other with our own random / low decks with various rules or handicaps.

We both have quite the collection and like using decks or cards you usually never see or use.

 

I find this way more entertaining than playing the same meta-decks in vs mode every time.

Don't get me wrong this is not a complaint about people using the same decks in vs mode, I'm guilty of that myself from time to time.

I'm simply saying playing lower tier decks vs each other without any risk of losing win streaks or feeling like you have to win to get rewards is much more enjoyable.

 

That said, I think it would be an awesome idea to have a new mode which has rotating rules or handicaps.

Prizes could be anything, but preferably per win, not a ladder reward like we have in the current VS mode.

Just a couple of examples:

  • No EX-GX
  • No abilities
  • No trainer cards
  • Minimum of 5 different types

Loads of other options and possibilities. 

What do you guys think?


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02 June 2018 - 10:38 PM

#14

SingingFlyEx

    Trainer

  • SingingFlyEx

Alternate rules:

— No prize cards. Prize cards are just tokens, when you pick one you may choose to draw a card. (Nothing gets prized, reliable 1-of's.)

— Deck of 70 cards

— For all pokémon cards, replace the printed HP with 2x or 3x the HP (no 1HKO)

 

“No trainer” sounds extremely boring.

“5 types” → I usually play 3 (Lele, koko, guru/octo...) so I tech in a double type.

“No abilities”→ King Buzzwole at the moment

“No EX/GX” → Greninja Break

 

None of this will ever happen in ptcgo though because too few people would invest time into fun formats so no dev budget for that.


Edited by SingingFlyEx, 02 June 2018 - 10:43 PM.

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03 June 2018 - 11:21 AM

#15

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_

In Hearthstone you got “Brawl”, a mode with a changing rule-set every week. Sometimes you get a pre-constructed deck and sometimes you can build your own. The mode has been immensely popular, ever since its release, as everyone can have a good time, regardless of collection status / skill. You get 1 booster pack for winning once and that's it (though you can complete your quests in said mode).

 

The idea is great. If you don't like the rules, than you can just play until you get your one win (or ignore the brawl entirely) and if you like the rules than you can happily play the mode and try out various ideas, while also being able to complete your quests.

 

I'm not sure if something similar would work for PTCGO, as the two games are quite different from another, but the idea of a rotating fun format does sound, for the lack of a better word, fun.

 

Though this sentence sums it up perfectly :D.


None of this will ever happen in ptcgo though because too few people would invest time into fun formats so no dev budget for that.


The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

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03 June 2018 - 05:02 PM

#16

Mod_Alder

    Moderator

  • Mod_Alder

Thank you to everyone for posting your feedback, I will make sure the development team is aware of this thread.


Moderator Alder
Pokémon TCG Online Moderator

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