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Please remove Mach Strike Theme Deck


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08 May 2018 - 10:43 PM

#21

Jenna573

    Rookie Trainer

  • Jenna573

The issue here isn't so much that Mach Strike is too good, it's that nearly every other deck is arguably terrible. I've always seen the decks as marketed more toward children/beginners. With decks like Mach Strike, that changed. You could buy two and instantly have a low-tier competitive deck that could be built up even more by adding other singles into it. This isn't true of most of the theme decks, save for Greninja back in XY BreakPoint.

 

You can't ban one theme deck that people pay real money for in real life from a game just because it is better. It would be a poor business decision as it would alienate players who want to play with a deck that is both actually good and features very popular pokemon/characters from the games/anime.

 

The real solution is to make each new deck moving forward just as good as Mach Strike. Other TCGs like Yu-Gi-Oh feature structure decks that you can buy 2 or 3 of and you can instantly start competing in local/regional tournaments to some degree. This is nowhere near true for most pokemon theme decks, and it's a real shame. I thought Mach Strike was a new era for theme decks but the most recent ones are back to being kind of lame again. Come on, TPCi, let's usher in a new era of theme decks and foster more exciting competition!


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09 May 2018 - 04:03 AM

#22

qbndx

    Rookie Trainer

  • qbndx
I agree that facing MS over and over can become monotonous, but that feeling quickly turns to elation every time I beat it.

I recently won my first tournament with IC vs. MS in every round.

I handily defeat modified MS decks in standard and expanded, to the point where I'm excited whenever I face one.

I created this account to focus more on theme play, and I've been using Hidden Moon to try and shake up the variety of decks I face. I just beat a MS with HM vs. a turn-3 Garchomp. They had a full bench: Lucario, the otter with a comb-over*, everything.

I h8 Mach Strike with a passion (even though Garchomp is a fav of mine since jumping back into Pokemon games), but figuring out how to beat it is half the fun for me. The other half is actually beating it :D

*other than Gen-1, I'm terrible with names, sorry :D
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09 May 2018 - 06:48 PM

#23

graywh

    Elite Trainer

  • graywh

It's time for the devs to make new starter decks that are on par with Mach Strike and Imperial Command.


Edited by graywh, 09 May 2018 - 06:48 PM.

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09 May 2018 - 11:31 PM

#24

SuperStone

    Elite Trainer

  • SuperStone

It's time for the devs to make new starter decks that are on par with Mach Strike and Imperial Command.

Perhaps they could pirate some ideas from Kieta's weird deck request thread.   http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/54328-deck-building-contest-winners-are-supertimland-imobvmafia-and-deadfun/


The truth waits for no one.  That which you refuse to see, TPCi, slips past you.  The chat function was never your problem, yet through your blindness, you have made it one.

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10 May 2018 - 12:03 AM

#25

Princess_Aurora

    Veteran Trainer

  • Princess_Aurora
Heck, I can even say that a standard-issued Mach Strike deck can hold against a Expanded deck. The Garchomp is capable of dishing out 200 damage in a single blow. That’s enough to take out most EX/GX units, never mind the regular cards.

Friendship is magic!

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10 May 2018 - 10:22 AM

#26

Mod_GuruLot

    Moderator

  • Mod_GuruLot

It's time for the devs to make new starter decks that are on par with Mach Strike and Imperial Command.

Hello there graywh, 
 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
 
The developers appreciate opinions of the players.
 
Although they can't guarantee implementations of your ideas and suggestions, they review and discuss it regularly.

Best, 
Mod_Gurulot
Pokémon TCG Online Moderator

 

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10 May 2018 - 04:38 PM

#27

Oldschool1990

    Veteran Trainer

  • Oldschool1990

I already made that suggestion a while ago and thus agree.

But afaik they are pretty scared to mess up the entire format with an OP Deck like in Crushing Currents meta, it was horrible and unplayable, until the gen7 powercreep decks came along. Thus their hesitation, they want to avoid breaking the meta again.

 

That said, with the arrival of the new theme decks, this thread is no longer of much relevance.

Power creep trumps again. Things will eventually balance out as we get more and more new theme decks.

As always, you can expect a more detailed analysis from me when some time has passed and people have adapted to the new decks. The meta already feels way healthier with the new decks, I've also seen some increase in usage from clanging thunder and destruction fang recently which is a good sign.


Edited by Oldschool1990, 10 May 2018 - 04:41 PM.

Specialized on Theme Deck Tournaments.

Contra principia negantem non est disputandum.

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18 September 2018 - 12:58 PM

#28

Reoland

    Rookie Trainer

  • Reoland

I am FULLY behind removing mach strike deck. It's 61% more reliable based on just plain simple math. The decisions you make with mach strike each turn have 3 options rather than a plethora of possible outcomes like the rest of the theme decks. Each other theme deck has a THEME and isn't just a fully prepped rush deck. Rush is a deck style NOT A THEME.


Edited by Reoland, 18 September 2018 - 01:01 PM.

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28 September 2018 - 04:36 PM

#29

Otakutron

    Senior Trainer

  • Otakutron

Heck, I can even say that a standard-issued Mach Strike deck can hold against a Expanded deck. The Garchomp is capable of dishing out 200 damage in a single blow. That’s enough to take out most EX/GX units, never mind the regular cards.

 

There is more to being a competitive deck than dishing out big damage.  Against an Expanded Deck that is at least competently built and piloted, Mach Strike only wins via luck.

 

Mach Strike is still one of the strongest Theme Decks in the Theme Format, but even as its lead erodes it remains popular because it tends to either set up quickly (and win) or lose quickly, in an obvious fashion so that insta-quitters don't lose a lot of time figuring it out.  Mach Strike wasn't even leaps and bounds beyond the previous two Theme Decks; in a sense, it got lucky that TPC doesn't really care about the Theme Format and that it released at a time when it utterly replaced its immediate predecessor (Clanging Thunder) while lacking a true natural counter. 

 

What is a natural counter, and why does it matter?  Usually, it is just a solid deck that exploits the Weakness on your deck's main attacker, but sometimes it is strategic.  Garchomp is [Y] Weak, with a decent amount of variety in the Weaknesses of the deck's secondary attackers (Gumshoos, Lucario, and Hippowdon); we just don't have a good [Y] focused Theme Deck and it looks like we aren't getting one either.  This is a place where the devs might be able to step in.  It doesn't take a "broken" [Y] deck to make a difference; the top Theme Deck in the Theme Format metagame can be taken down a notch so long as one (or one more) poor matchup exists for it.

 

The other form of natural counter is harder to build, but we have an example that also explains why Mach Strike has remained good for so long; it counters Tropical Takedown because Alolan Raticate and (more importantly) Exeggcute are small enough for Quick Dive to OHKO on the Bench and because the Tropical Takedown deck seems to be built assuming Alolan Exeggutor can take at least one hit.  Even without Type advantage, this means a Tropical Takedown needs a lucky, fast open (or for the Mach Strike deck to misfire) to really win.

 

The final thought I want to leave you all with is that, if I were to assign traditional, western (American?) letter grades to our Theme Decks, Mach Strike is at best a C+ because I am not grading on a curve.  Theme Decks need to teach a new player how the game works, be a solid starting point for said new player's own first deck, and have a little something to it for experienced players (even if only in the Theme Format).  Some of the Online Exclusive Decks have gotten it right (or more right) than Mach Strike... but that meant they dominated the Theme Format so severely said decks had to be nerfed. =/  Most Theme Decks have been D's or F's; a lot just seemed better because when you've got a lot of "low F" decks, a "high F" seems average and a "D" seems good. XP


If you do not have Private Messages enabled, it really limits you in discussing the Pokémon TCG. ;)

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30 October 2018 - 08:58 PM

#30

King-Magikarp

    Novice Trainer

  • King-Magikarp

Why are there so many threads/posts about stuff that the devs of this game cant do anything about?

 

Theme deck design is done by a team within TPCI and the devs here only translate tat into virtual cards and content. The game as a whole has had decks in the past that at the time were very powerful out of the box, heck 2 Team Magma theme decks plus a few cards won Worlds. Honestly though the theme decks needed to get better as the cards included did not give new players cards to build off of. Cynthia being a $6 card makes it hard for new players to easily get into the game. By adding highly played cards it gives new players a better jumping off point.

 

Theme decks are also designed to not only teach the basics of the game but also can allow players to learn about more advanced strategies. The Tropical Shake theme deck is actually the most advanced theme deck I have ever seen produced and Ive seen ALOT from my 20+ years of playing the TCG. The deck showcases how cards interact with the discard.

 

Back to the OP though. Yes it can be annoying and yes as posted by others the only way to add variety would be to make new online theme decks. This process can take a bit of time as you need a balance to make a theme deck.


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31 October 2018 - 12:01 AM

#31

AlRubyx

    Novice Trainer

  • AlRubyx

I agree. The deck is so strong my actual standard deck is basically two of them put together with a tapu lele and the filler commons taken out. My winrate is well above 50.


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31 October 2018 - 02:34 PM

#32

XK920XK

    Veteran Trainer

  • XK920XK

i think these newer theme decks are great, it gives new player an opportunity to semi compete with some of these tier 1 decks. this is especially true online.


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01 November 2018 - 02:48 AM

#33

Otakutron

    Senior Trainer

  • Otakutron

Why are there so many threads/posts about stuff that the devs of this game cant do anything about?

 

Actually, the Dev Team appears to be allowed to make Online Exclusive decks, as well as tweak them.  Mach Strike is not a PTCGO exclusive deck, but a solid [Y] deck build to the current standards set by the last several Theme Decks would naturally help balance out Mach Strike by giving it a single terrible matchup.


If you do not have Private Messages enabled, it really limits you in discussing the Pokémon TCG. ;)

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