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OU7C4ST

Bring Vivid Sleeves/Deck Boxes Back Please!

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OU7C4ST

Now I know this will be a very.. very unpopular post with some of the major traders out there, but that's only because it's one of the major reasons I'm advocating for the return of Vivid sets.


- Brief history on what Vivid Sets are: Back in the early years of Pokemon TCG Online there were gameplay sets of Sleeves/Deckboxes you could purchase with Gems when the currency was in the early stages of first being introduced. These were the Vivid sets that you see of Thundurus, Mewtwo, & Victini. (We don't include the Vivid Gengar set as that came later, and has been widely available on more than one occasion to obtain both in-shop, & freely through special challenges).

- Why are they so expensive? Well as time went on, these rotated out of the shop, and the players who obtained them have either quit, gotten banned somehow, or stockpiled them over the years without letting them heavily circulate out into the community.

- Why should we care about reintroducing them back into the shop? We must first acknowledge the fact there is a rampant black market regarding this game, meaning people illegally sell digital cards or gameplay items even though it's against the game's Terms of Service. These sets in the underground market are worth virtually THOUSANDS of dollars to obtain via illegal tactics, or purchasing THOUSANDS of dollars worth of code cards, etc. to even trade for 1 of these sets.

It is ridiculous that something within the game has even gotten to this point of value. Let's collectively put an end to this type of underground market, by starting with these. It'll be a HUGE win for the company, & us the players as there are alot of us out there who want to enjoy these sets.. without having to sell our kidneys lol.

Thank you.

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RobRatt

<snip>

 

These were the Vivid sets that you see of Thundurus, Mewtwo, & Victini. (We don't include the Vivid Gengar set....)

 

Don't forget Vivid Deoxys.

 

<snip>

 

It is ridiculous that something within the game has even gotten to this point of value.

 

I've often wondered how it got this carried away.  Even if we were to buy legitimate secondary market Code Cards, you're looking at $150 thru $400 in real dollars to buy just one of these sets.  I've never spent more than $10 or $15 for sleeves and deck box in the real world, and I can't imagine doing so for virtual (pretend) ones.  I agree, it would be a good win for players, and the Company.

Edited by RobRatt
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abinhathbour456

am with and against this idea my feelings are mixed when it comes to this subject i own all of them and i don't want the value to drop but at the sometime i want to get more of them.

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OU7C4ST

 

<snip>

 

These were the Vivid sets that you see of Thundurus, Mewtwo, & Victini. (We don't include the Vivid Gengar set....)

 

Don't forget Vivid Deoxys.

 

Oooh yes, How could I forget Vivid Deoxys. Those are a beauty as well.

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Felidae_

Honestly I'd rather see them creating a new set of Vivid Sleeves / Deck boxes that can be bought from the shop by everyone.

While I wish that certain cards would become easier to obtain (i.e. Tropical Beach), I also like the fact that certain gameplay items, like the Vivid Sets, have become sort of a status symbol in the game, even if they ultimately serve no purpose.

 

Are their prices at an in-human level ? Definitely.

Would I be willing so spend so much on a mere gameplay item ? Not in a million years

Should everyone get equal chances to obtain them? No. I'm sorry, but there are so many sleeves and deck boxes to choose from, many of them looking arguably better than the Vivid Set. The most appealing thing about them is their value and their exclusivity.

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abinhathbour456

Honestly I'd rather see them creating a new set of Vivid Sleeves / Deck boxes that can be bought from the shop by everyone.

While I wish that certain cards would become easier to obtain (i.e. Tropical Beach), I also like the fact that certain gameplay items, like the Vivid Sets, have become sort of a status symbol in the game, even if they ultimately serve no purpose.

 

Are their prices at an in-human level ? Definitely.

Would I be willing so spend so much on a mere gameplay item ? Not in a million years

Should everyone get equal chances to obtain them? No. I'm sorry, but there are so many sleeves and deck boxes to choose from, many of them looking arguably better than the Vivid Set. The most appealing thing about them is their value and their exclusivity.

i agree with you that what makes them special and valuable and if we want to talk about ridicules prices lets talk about the fossil set i know someone who will trade it for 3500 gr now thats absurd.

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Chasista

Not being particularly interested on those sets, I agree they could make'em back for the common good. Or to help accomplish the game rules.

 

If trading real money or any other physical objects, for virtual in-game objects is strictly forbidden, the way to stop this is removing the necessity of this kind of trades. If available again the price would drop. Probably.

 

Maybe the way to don't harm too much those who already have it, would be offering'em locked. Yes, we have mixed feelings about locked items and maybe the trade-able still would value high but, with people having it on its own collections would decrease the demand. And would result hard hitting the black market.

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OU7C4ST

Maybe the way to don't harm too much those who already have it, would be offering'em locked. Yes, we have mixed feelings about locked items and maybe the trade-able still would value high but, with people having it on its own collections would decrease the demand. And would result hard hitting the black market.

Hmm. I believe I like this potential option the most to be honest. It'll be a good balance.

 

Offer them in the Gameplay shop, but don't give the option to purchase with Gems. I like this idea alot actually.

 

Great proposal Chasista!

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RobRatt

Hmm. I believe I like this potential option the most to be honest. It'll be a good balance.

 

Offer them in the Gameplay shop, but don't give the option to purchase with Gems. I like this idea alot actually.

I thought about this yesterday, with their announcement, but I was hesitant that it would come across as a rant.

 

They could offer those older Promos and bundles the same way -- the ones that came without code cards in the real world.  To eliminate the greed aspect (hoarding, price hiking, etc.), they could create a new Promo Tab, right next to Gameplay, and don't give the option to purchase with Gems.  Problem solved.

 

It would be nice to "catch 'em all" without stress.

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seminc

I thought about this yesterday, with their announcement, but I was hesitant that it would come across as a rant.

 

They could offer those older Promos and bundles the same way -- the ones that came without code cards in the real world.  To eliminate the greed aspect (hoarding, price hiking, etc.), they could create a new Promo Tab, right next to Gameplay, and don't give the option to purchase with Gems.  Problem solved.

 

It would be nice to "catch 'em all" without stress.

I agree with this. Although to me part of the fun of obtaining those promos was buying the bundles, so just being able to buy the promo cards as singles kinda feels a bit weak.

 

I may be wrong but I also think I remember someone saying that there are no plans to ever sell single cards in the shop, as dictating prices for single cards does not fall in the jurisdiction of TPCi.

 

I still wanna see the promos come back though. Maybe a Bundles tab? With smaller bundles? Like the promo card + sleeves/coin/other material usually offered along with it + 1 pack from the expansion the bundle was promoting? Idk just an idea

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OU7C4ST

With the introduction of Computer Search to the 2nd Tier of the VS Ladder, & yet another FA N on the VS Ladder at 2000 points, this makes the post that much more valid as it could potentially be a thing.


TPCi has no issue with devaluing highly sought after cards. Let's do it for ridiculously out of control Gameplay Items as well. Let's destroy the underground market for these Vivid Sleeves.

Nothing should of gotten this out of hand on a F2P game.

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TOONAAA

With the introduction of Computer Search to the 2nd Tier of the VS Ladder, & yet another FA N on the VS Ladder at 2000 points, this makes the post that much more valid as it could potentially be a thing.

 

 

TPCi has no issue with devaluing highly sought after cards. Let's do it for ridiculously out of control Gameplay Items as well. Let's destroy the underground market for these Vivid Sleeves.

 

Nothing should of gotten this out of hand on a F2P game.

This is arguable. Its actually amazing vivid sets have gone up past 1000 packs. If this game was MTGO, they'd would love stuff like this. Vivid sets going this high shows there's a real market for a full blown MTGO styled PTCGO and a small glimpse of what this game could be. Its not like there was malicious intent behind the sets going up to a high price. At one point these sets were only 100 packs and no one was complaining then. These individuals are not some kind of criminals, just regular people getting the sleeves and deck boxes they want. It feels somewhat unfair for these individuals to be punished over something simple like buying sleeves to fill out their collection. 

 

The issue that is a bit problematic is how these items are exchanged from person to person and this is all the client's fault. Because trades are limited to 100 items, trading anything that goes over that amount is ridiculously difficult. Real money transactions regarding these items would drop immensely if they were able to trade them over the client, which I am sure many prospective buyers would prefer. 

 

Furthermore, from a valuation perspective, if TPCI were to reprint or restock these items en-mass, there would be a insane amount of value just flat out lost. The money or advertisement TCPI would receive compared to the current total value of all the vivid items in circulation and inventory would be extremely insignificant. They should take advantage of the current value of vivids and use it to their advantage as an asset, not just eliminate it altogether.

 

I just wish people could easily buy into ptcgo with a fair priced option to purchase packs in client. The game is extremely accessible to anyone who can drop 20-30 dollars for code cards, but its a huge hassle to buy codes, enter them, then spend time looking for each individual card you need. I like reprints/promotional activities like these, as new player growth is always good for the game, but I wish they'd just give people an easier way to access the game instead. (I get they cant because physical > online).

Edited by TOONAAA
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RobRatt

I just wish people could easily buy into ptcgo with a fair priced option to purchase packs in client. The game is extremely accessible to anyone who can drop 20-30 dollars for code cards, but its a huge hassle to buy codes, enter them, then spend time looking for each individual card you need. I like reprints/promotional activities like these, as new player growth is always good for the game, but I wish they'd just give people an easier way to access the game instead. (I get they cant because physical > online).

ALL of this has strayed far, far away from Vivid gameplay sets.  Please forgive my reply.

 

You'd suggest that bringing virtual/pretend sleeves into the game will cripple The Company's value, but letting people BUY everything else is the solution?

 

It's not a matter of "physical > online" because there's a symbiotic relationship.  I forecast that if TPCi ever went to a Pay 2 Win model in the Online game, it would not only kill the physical card game, but people would fade from Online as well.  I'd rather not see that happen.

 

No one is going to be a better deck builder, or tournament Champion if they can just cough up the money for an advantage.  There's more to it than that, and gathering individual cards is "the nature of the beast."  Always has been.  What about the people who buy cases (and boxes) of the physical product, because they play in both environments?  That's the lifeblood of The Pokémon Company.  The competitive players, the card shops, and distributors would all be hurt if the Online version became Pay 2 Win.

 

Do monetization strategies take into account the legal difficulties, or extra costs involved?  I'm guessing there are strong reasons why it hasn't happened yet.  As it is, Apple won't allow code cards on their platform without a large percentage of the profit.  Even the variable Sales Tax in the U.S. would be enough to cause concern (not to mention the Global difficulties).  And if they ever start accepting cash for Packs, they risk losing the argument in court about who owns the virtual cards, regardless of the Terms of Service Agreement.

 

Code cards from physical Packs might be more inconvenient (than paying cash in the Client), but it's a model that serves it's purpose quite well.  Most players in this game consider it to be Free 2 Play, and they're essential.  Is TPCi willing to risk pushing them out?  How many parents are willing to hand over their debit card for the rest?

 

P.S.  A $20 external web-cam (USB) makes code cards a breeze.  It's grueling by hand, but entering a box-worth (36 packs) takes about 3 minutes with QR codes.  :cool:

Edited by RobRatt
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SingingFlyEx

Wouldn't ptcgo just monitor the trades of these sets and find who's been selling them for cash?

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Mod_GuruLot

Wouldn't ptcgo just monitor the trades of these sets and find who's been selling them for cash?

Hello there SingingFlyEx, 

 

You are doing a great job by sharing your thoughts and ideas about the trades. Many thanks to you!  :)

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pokemonbrandon

I agree with bringing thme back as I recent heard that some have payed upwards of $1000+ on a certain auction site for these very same items mentioned above. I mean when they were out they cost 200 gems a set which works out to approx. $10 a set, I agree to bringing thme back to the shop for everyone to enjoy, not just those of us who can afford them.  :)

 

 

PB

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SandaledOtter

P.S.  A $20 external web-cam (USB) makes code cards a breeze.  It's grueling by hand, but entering a box-worth (36 packs) takes about 3 minutes with QR codes.  :cool:

 

If you have an Android device you can link to your computer, look for something called DroidCam. An app on the phone, an app on the PC, and you're set.

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The_Real_Bug

Thanks but no thanks.

Transforming the game into a CCG by giving away the most valuable cards within the game via the trade locked path is hurting irreversibly the trading part of PTCGO.

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picsupes

Thanks but no thanks.

 

Transforming the game into a CCG by giving away the most valuable cards within the game via the trade locked path is hurting irreversibly the trading part of PTCGO.

 

 

I get that you have an agenda that you've been trying to propogate on these forums and on Reddit, but not everything fits into your "us vs them" narrative. This thread is not about "giving away the most valuable cards". The outrageous prices commanded by the gameplay items in question seem to be a distortion of the purpose of the trading feature rather than a logical outcome of its design. You could debate this point, but if there is indeed an underground market for these items involving the exchange of real money that is a clear violation of PTCGO's terms of service. Ou7c4st is right to bring this to the attention of the devs and asking for some kind of resolution to this problem.

Edited by picsupes
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The_Real_Bug

I get that you have an agenda that you've been trying to propogate on these forums and on Reddit, but not everything fits into your "us vs them" narrative. This thread is not about "giving away the most valuable cards". The outrageous prices commanded by the gameplay items in question seem to be a distortion of the purpose of the trading feature rather than a logical outcome of its design. You could debate this point, but if there is indeed an underground market for these items involving the exchange of real money that is a clear violation of PTCGO's terms of service. Ou7c4st is right to bring this to the attention of the devs and asking for some kind of resolution to this problem.

 

Agenda? For who am i working for and what's my purpose all those months?

 

I'm just a frustrated player that tries to bring TPCI back to their senses even if in the end of the day it's a "us vs them" mentallity.

It's their fault that some items where available via the failed gems' formula which was an obvious mistake and you are trying to tell me that you would like them to correct that by making another mistake such as making those items available within the shop for tokens?

 

Do you understand how rarity works or rarity should only be applied in a way that benefits the masses?

 

By the way, i'm glad that you are noticing me wherever i'm writing.

I guess that i'm doing a good job  :)

 

Transforming a TCG into a CCG in order to stop an underground black market and account compromisations is a recipe for failure.

 

Don't agree with me? That's fine because nobody is forced to agree with me.

But do me a favor and let's meet again in the next few months in order to discuss how poorly the in-game trading economy will be performing with the flooded in-game shop with trade locked items.

 

Rarity would be a foreign word for most of the traders.

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picsupes

Agenda? For who am i working for and what's my purpose all those months? I'm just a frustrated player that tries to bring TPCI back to their senses even if in the end of the day it's a "us vs them" mentallity.

Your agenda is your own. While it might come from a legitimate place of frustration at the changes being made to the game you obviously love, I think you tend to look at any decisions the devs make in a purely negative light. You are of course entitled to your opinions but you keep framing them in terms of a conflict between the devs and the players in which you serve on the front lines of the resistance. I'm sure most of it is just for dramatic effect, but I think there's a part of you that truly believes that you are the hero we need. Whether or not I'm happy with every decision the devs make I think their underlying objective is to make the game more accessible and enjoyable for everyone. While they might not always be able to realize this target, I think it is obnoxious to keep painting them as villains in some pantomime war you're waging in your own head.

 

Do you understand how rarity works or rarity should only be applied in a way that benefits the masses? Transforming a TCG into a CCG in order to stop an underground black market and account compromisations is a recipe for failure.

Perhaps we simply disagree on the function of the trade market on PTCGO. I believe it is to make it easier to get the cards you want. Others might have a different attitude towards trading and enjoy trading for its own sake. But the topic at hand (ie. the illegal transactions involving Vivids) is the consequence of of an absolutely unregulated trading system. I'm sure you've seen posts about/by people who were sitting on a massive number of Computer Search-es, denying many players from having access to the card by restricting the number of Comp Search in circulation and helping maintain its high price. If you think it's a bad idea to discourage such behaviour, I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. If you are truly trying to speak up on behalf of the players (and not just a portion of them) you would understand why making the game more accessible is not a bad thing. And neither is it turning it into a CCG. The trading feature is not going anywhere. All I see is an attempt to rein in some of its excesses.

 

By the way, i'm glad that you are noticing me wherever i'm writing. I guess that i'm doing a good job :)

I can't deny that your hysterical rants have a certain entertainment value. :) Keep writing and ranting! I might not always agree with you but I certainly appreciate your passion.

Edited by picsupes
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The_Real_Bug

You are of course entitled to your opinions but you keep framing them in terms of a conflict between the devs and the players in which you serve on the front lines of the resistance. I'm sure most of it is just for dramatic effect, but I think there's a part of you that truly believes that you are the hero we need. 

 

You either get banned as a ranter or live long enough to become their golden boy.

Joking aside, our only chance against some decisions that we don't enjoy is the usage of our voice.

I'm nobody's hero, when i don't like something i'm simply opposing against it.

 

Whether or not I'm happy with every decision the devs make I think their underlying objective is to make the game more accessible and enjoyable for everyone. While they might not always be able to realize this target, I think it is obnoxious to keep painting them as villains in some pantomime war you're waging in your own head.

 

Their decisions aren't always based on making the game better for all of us.

There are plenty of decisions that only benefit the developers such as canning the chat in order to reduce moderation load and we all saw how that worked out.

I'm not the one who is painting them as villains neither there's some pantomime war waging in my own head.

Lately their decisions are becoming more and more controversial and i don't see how is that my fault.

 

 

If you think it's a bad idea to discourage such behaviour, I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. If you are truly trying to speak up on behalf of the players (and not just a portion of them) you would understand why making the game more accessible is not a bad thing. And neither is it turning it into a CCG. The trading feature is not going anywhere. All I see is an attempt to rein in some of its excesses.

 

Performing such drastic actions can only bring backlash and create a keyboard war between "casuals" and "traders".

Personally i don't belong to any of those categories but i can understand that the side that is being hurted more is the "traders" for obvious reasons.

It's in their hands to revamp the trading system in order to maintain the balance that you are speaking off, but until that time comes the ones that are paying the price are those that invested in valuable cards.

I have a couple of freinds that invest into various valuable cards not willing to make any kind of profit in some underground black market, but to manage to collect every single card within the game via the trading way.

What about their efforts? Are they simply going to be flushed down to the toilet in the sake of the casual's accessibility?

 

I can't deny that your hysterical rants have a certain entertainment value. :) Keep writing and ranting! I might not always agree with you but I certainly appreciate your passion.

 

Thank you for your kind words  :) 

The "Real" Real Bug is merely just a gimmick in order to attract the corresponding attention that is needed on specific subjects that i think that need to be brought into the light.

Controversy makes cash and that's what i'm doing  :P

If i have to engage into some serious discussion then i'm totally into it, but i won't until i get TPCI's attention.

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picsupes

Their decisions aren't always based on making the game better for all of us.

There are plenty of decisions that only benefit the developers such as canning the chat in order to reduce moderation load and we all saw how that worked out.

I was definitely unhappy with the decision to implement canned chat. It has completely erased the social aspect of the game which I cherished. However, I don't think you can say that this was only done to reduce the workload of the moderators. I had firsthand experience of the kind of behaviour that led the devs to remove in-game chat. I still do not support their decision but I suspect it did improve the PTCGO experience for at least some people.

I have a couple of freinds that invest into various valuable cards not willing to make any kind of profit in some underground black market, but to manage to collect every single card within the game via the trading way.

What about their efforts? Are they simply going to be flushed down to the toilet in the sake of the casual's accessibility?

If your objective is to collect every card within the game, I don't see why you should be bothered if others are also given a better chance of doing so. Why must one be at the expense of the other? I don't know about the particulars of your friends' investments in the game, but if any of them lost a lot of value with the selection of Comp Search as a ladder reward, they should have known better than to concentrate so much value in one card. I personally am not a fan of treating PTCGO's trading feature as a stock market but if you do you must have some expectation of risk. At any rate I doubt that that is what the game was intended for. Hoarding cards to inflate their value and corner the market should be differentiated from simply trading for the purposes of collecting or enhancing the aesthetic appeal of your decks. Honestly, I am not really concerned about how people choose to spend their time on PTCGO but as someone who grew up on the internet I am naturally suspicious of and antipathetic to proprietary attitudes, especially towards digital content.

 

Some of the latest changes have provoked two contradictory responses from the community, sometimes from the same individuals: that the game is not F2P enough or that it is too F2P (and as you say "turning into a CCG"). My own position occupies the middle ground between these two attitudes but at the end of the day I just want to remind people that according to TPCI's terms of service we do not have any property claims over the virtual content they provide to us. I'm not saying that people should not take pride in their collections but that they should not forget that it is free content and so discussions of value etc should be treated with a grain of salt.

 

That's all I have to say.

Edited by picsupes
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Princess_Aurora

Their decisions aren't always based on making the game better for all of us.

 

There are plenty of decisions that only benefit the developers such as canning the chat in order to reduce moderation load and we all saw how that worked out.

 

I'm not the one who is painting them as villains neither there's some pantomime war waging in my own head.

 

Lately their decisions are becoming more and more controversial and i don't see how is that my fault.

 

They're currently doing a great job for updates so far, compared to some of the other companies such as Pixonic or Supercell. I admit that getting the cards that you want may be hard in certain cases, but what would be the point of the whole game if there wasn't any challenge?

 

Here's an example. Have you ever played Minecraft? If you give yourself a big bunch of Diamond Blocks (I've always wondered how these fit in a pocket) and switch into survival mode, you won't have a lot of fun using the Diamond equipment against mobs. But if you played it for a looooong time, and finally find two Diamonds... Even a single Diamond Sword can be pleasant to wield.

 

Or another example: if the most useful items in an entire game can be obtained within 15 minutes of registration, everyone will be using them and there's going to be a royal pain in the neck meta going on. What happens if everyone gets Zoroark-GX or Gardevoir-GX? You'll see them everywhere, and people will have nightmares about them.

 

My point is, if people want to enjoy the equipment they use, they need to earn it. The harder, the better. But when it's too hard, the whole thing loses it's point.

 

But that doesn't justify some fluffheads who hog 45 Computer Searches. That's right, the guy had FOURTY-FIVE Computer Searches. That's enough computers to effectuate a corporate-sized DDoS attack on something. What in the world was he doing with 45 CS, you may ask? Simple. He was having fun playing Wall Street man. And when it crashed, he got what he had coming for him. 

 

And for the chat canning, I understand why they made it. I'm a moderator on a wikia for a game called "War Robots", and believe me, even in casual wiki discussions, there are ***** who just spam useless stuff or straight-out ask new users inappropriate things. I can't say that I appreciate them canning the chat, but I understand it. Moderators are mostly volunteers that have lives of their own, and they don't always have the time to deal with chat messes or floods. Plus, some of it's users are not fully ready yet to see the whole of internet chatting. There can be some... Ugly stuff.

 

EDIT: the word that was censored was jerky without the y and in plurial form.

Edited by Princess_Aurora
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The_Real_Bug

But that doesn't justify some fluffheads who hog 45 Computer Searches. That's right, the guy had FOURTY-FIVE Computer Searches. That's enough computers to effectuate a corporate-sized DDoS attack on something. What in the world was he doing with 45 CS, you may ask? Simple. He was having fun playing Wall Street man. And when it crashed, he got what he had coming for him. 

 

Pokemon Trading Card Game Online

 

TRADING

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