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New decks are killing Theme play


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14 March 2018 - 10:45 PM

#21

Oldschool1990

    Veteran Trainer

  • Oldschool1990

NEW THEME DECKS: (second types are only predictions)

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) <- My prediction: gets Alolan Marowak / Pyroar (fire) split

Lycanroc (fighting) <- My prediction: gets Florges (fairy) split

What do you guys think about those?

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) 160HP stage1
(Grass) Tropical Shake: 20+
This attack does 20 more damage for each type of Basic Energy card in your discard pile. You can't add more than 100 damage in this way.
weakness: fire // resistance: none // retreat cost: (3)


Lycanroc (fighting) 120 HP stage1
(Fighting)(colorless) Dangerous Rogue: 20+
This attack does 20 more damage for each of your opponent's Benched Pokémon.
(Fighting)(Fighting)(colorless)Accelerock: 100
weakness: grass // resistance: none // retreat cost: (2)


Edited by Oldschool1990, 14 March 2018 - 10:46 PM.

Specialized on Theme Deck Tournaments.

Contra principia negantem non est disputandum.

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14 March 2018 - 11:14 PM

#22

Chasista

    Elite Trainer

  • Chasista

NEW THEME DECKS: (second types are only predictions)

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) <- My prediction: gets Alolan Marowak / Pyroar (fire) split

Lycanroc (fighting) <- My prediction: gets Florges (fairy) split

What do you guys think about those?

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) 160HP stage1
(Grass) Tropical Shake: 20+
This attack does 20 more damage for each type of Basic Energy card in your discard pile. You can't add more than 100 damage in this way.
weakness: fire // resistance: none // retreat cost: (3)

Lycanroc (fighting) 120 HP stage1
(Fighting)(colorless) Dangerous Rogue: 20+
This attack does 20 more damage for each of your opponent's Benched Pokémon.
(Fighting)(Fighting)(colorless)Accelerock: 100
weakness: grass // resistance: none // retreat cost: (2)



It will everything depend on partners. How much lonely useless basic are included and the thick of the evo lines.

Not waiting the trainers to be as good as a pair of Cynthia. This is only in one deck, either Imperial Command lacks a bit from this. Tow Lillie would have been huge.

About Exeggutor, probably will be "useless" in the Theme. Unless they add a ton of different type energies, will be a Stage 1 hitting 60 as much. Is quite good for 1 energy but, is not suposed to be the star of the deck? Garchomp does 100+ same as Empoleon, easy. Let's see how fast we are able to get the Exeggutors.

About Lycanroc, I like it. Kind of Empoleon attack although second attack will be hard to set up.

Some Imperial command pokémon will suffer weakness from Exeguttor's deck. But not the main ones. Also Lycanroc. I would love to see some dark pokémon with Lycanroc (Pancham, evolving into Pangoro <3 ) but I don't thing so :( Maybe Psy, there's a lot of Psy cards.

I hope there will be Diantha if they add fairy (and there's also a lot so, it could be!)


Edited by Chasista, 14 March 2018 - 11:15 PM.

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15 March 2018 - 08:51 PM

#23

grriffinn

    Trainer

  • grriffinn

NEW THEME DECKS: (second types are only predictions)

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) <- My prediction: gets Alolan Marowak / Pyroar (fire) split

Lycanroc (fighting) <- My prediction: gets Florges (fairy) split

What do you guys think about those?

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) 160HP stage1
(Grass) Tropical Shake: 20+
This attack does 20 more damage for each type of Basic Energy card in your discard pile. You can't add more than 100 damage in this way.
weakness: fire // resistance: none // retreat cost: (3)


Lycanroc (fighting) 120 HP stage1
(Fighting)(colorless) Dangerous Rogue: 20+
This attack does 20 more damage for each of your opponent's Benched Pokémon.
(Fighting)(Fighting)(colorless)Accelerock: 100
weakness: grass // resistance: none // retreat cost: (2)

 

The Alolan Exeggutor theme deck is going to be really iffy due to Tropical Shake requiring 5 types of basic Energy to hit for maximum damage, it's going to have to rely on its partners to hit for higher damage outputs.

 

The Dusk Forme Lycanroc theme deck is a bit better, its first attack is essentially a weaker version of Lycanroc-GX GRI's GX attack.


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16 March 2018 - 10:35 AM

#24

KianEndacott

    Novice Trainer

  • KianEndacott

The new Ultra Prism decks released are slowly going to kill theme play. 

 

I wouldn't say slowly - I'd say they've already killed it off.  You only see two packs now, and most games are lucky to last more than three hands because opponents just concede.  When your opponent can draw almost half their deck in 2-3 hands, there is no longer strategy involved, it is simply hope to heck you get a a better draw than they do.

And let's not mention the bad card draws which are clearly no longer random - I've started a tally on the number of identical hands that I draw first round.  So far I've had five identical mulligans in a row, 4 identical single Pokemon and energy in a row, and 7 cases where I have drawn not a single energy in the first four turns.  And that is all since the new rewards started this week. 


Edited by KianEndacott, 16 March 2018 - 10:41 AM.

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16 March 2018 - 08:14 PM

#25

Froznsaga

    Rookie Trainer

  • Froznsaga
Agreed. Mach Strike isn't a fair deck for theme play. Anymore, I just concede to trainers playing that deck...or at least when Gabite comes into play. It's no fun.
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16 March 2018 - 10:45 PM

#26

SingingFlyEx

    Trainer

  • SingingFlyEx

And let's not mention the bad card draws which are clearly no longer random - I've started a tally on the number of identical hands that I draw first round.  So far I've had five identical mulligans in a row, 4 identical single Pokemon and energy in a row, and 7 cases where I have drawn not a single energy in the first four turns.  And that is all since the new rewards started this week. 

I've seen several reports of weird RNG behavior. I paid attention to this after I had a striking coincidence too (namely, while playing the Garchomp deck, the first five times Lucario was prized, I took the bottom right card as first prize and it was Lucario each time—not too meaningful though).

It would be great if you could describe those cases precisely. E.g. “five identical mulligans in a row”, it's unclear to me if it's five games starting with a mulligan of the exact same cards, or one game with 5 mulligans. Also what kind of hand was it and which deck were you playing?

 

It could be the case that there's a bug in the RNG. It's not easy to get the random seed right after all. Depending on the details of your report, it could potentially PROVE that there's a bug. E.g. a cooking method for the random seed that fails for some player IDs.

 

Which is a serious matter.

Because if the cards in ptcgo are not guaranteed to behave like they do irl, then it could be misleading to playtest on ptcgo.


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17 March 2018 - 12:11 AM

#27

Princess_Aurora

    Veteran Trainer

  • Princess_Aurora

Yeah, as SingingFlyEx said, it's extremely difficult, almost impossible to translate randomness into code. The current draw models try their best to be "random" but sometimes the system jams here and there.

 

But the good news are, your opponent could also experience bad hands, so it's an even fight.


Friendship is magic!

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17 March 2018 - 12:43 AM

#28

The_Real_Bug

    Expert Trainer

  • The_Real_Bug

Theme decks are currenlty way more entertaining than before.


Don't follow the trends, follow my threads

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17 March 2018 - 10:33 PM

#29

Oldschool1990

    Veteran Trainer

  • Oldschool1990

Theme decks are currenlty way more entertaining than before.

 

Not really, no.

 

Riolu and Floaztel perma protect and Manaphy 10 times sleep coin tails in a row is just cancerous and I'm kinda at the end of my nerves with those.

 

I'm not mad at the players, they do their best to survive, but it significantly slows down the laddering process.

 

I really hope the new decks have some impact.


Edited by Oldschool1990, 17 March 2018 - 11:14 PM.

Specialized on Theme Deck Tournaments.

Contra principia negantem non est disputandum.

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18 March 2018 - 06:10 AM

#30

KianEndacott

    Novice Trainer

  • KianEndacott

It would be great if you could describe those cases precisely. E.g. “five identical mulligans in a row”, it's unclear to me if it's five games starting with a mulligan of the exact same cards, or one game with 5 mulligans. Also what kind of hand was it and which deck were you playing?

 

Five games starting with the same mulligan using the Mach Strike deck.  Gumshoos, Cynthia, Big Malasada and four energy.  Haven't had that many since, but did get it twice today...


Edited by KianEndacott, 18 March 2018 - 06:11 AM.

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18 March 2018 - 09:04 PM

#31

Oldschool1990

    Veteran Trainer

  • Oldschool1990

Try to avoid peak times.

The RNG tends to "hang up" when to many players are on the server, resulting in repetition of the same RNG seeds.

 

When you play at low pop times, the RNG "magically" gets better.


Specialized on Theme Deck Tournaments.

Contra principia negantem non est disputandum.

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19 March 2018 - 06:07 AM

#32

KianEndacott

    Novice Trainer

  • KianEndacott

This is just getting worse.  I've now had two games where I've drawn no energy in the first 40 cards.  Granted, 6 are prize cards but seriously, NOTHING in the remaining 34?

 

Fix this or you'll lose players very quickly.


Edited by KianEndacott, 19 March 2018 - 06:08 AM.

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19 March 2018 - 06:34 AM

#33

Eden2902

    Senior Trainer

  • Eden2902
Until the Hydreigon deck, theme deck was as a no-brainer (mostly luck dependent) an alternative to make something different for a moment, I mostly play Standard with my Gardevoir GX deck and gain from the rising popularity of Garchomp decks :D

Theme deck is very boring atm. First, they nearly all use the Garchomp deck and second, a dragon and a water deck are existing: Alola Ninetales and the Konmo-O deck. So I really was expecting new elements like a good steel or fairy deck. But the forbidden light expansion brings a grass and a fight deck... If they don't bring good versus awards like shaymin, I don't pkay it atm because I got Level 30 and the Versus prizes are mostly for expanded.

The cake is a lie!

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19 March 2018 - 02:56 PM

#34

SingingFlyEx

    Trainer

  • SingingFlyEx

Five games starting with the same mulligan using the Mach Strike deck.  Gumshoos, Cynthia, Big Malasada and four energy.  Haven't had that many since, but did get it twice today...

Great!

So five games in a row you first had a mulligan with this hand.

Now someone correct me if I'm wrong here ;)

There are 2 Gumshoos, 2 Cynthia, 1 Malasada and 20 energies in the deck, so after you had your first mulligan, each of the 4 following ones had a probability of (2*2*1*20*19*18*17)/(60*59*58*57*56*55*54)*7! = 0.12% of being the same by chance. Take that number, put it to the 4th power and inverse it and we get: A similar occurence should only happen once in 475 billion matches on average.

This is 1 million players each playing 10 matches a day everyday for 130 years...

This story strongly points to a RNG bug.

 

How long did the first 4 games take? That's how long the random seed presumably got stuck.

Was the starting hand after the mulligan the same too? If not, either it's not a stuck random seed or a new seed is cooked after a mulligan.

Do you also start with the same hand (no mulligan) several games in a row?

 

It could be that the bug(s) doesn't affect every user. This would be the case if e.g. the user ID is used in the cooking recipe but some IDs lead to bad statistical properties in the recipe.

 

PTCGO, please note that it's good practice to open-source the part of the code that deals with RNG.

 

Side note: an RNG bug could mean there's a best way to open packs!


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22 March 2018 - 07:52 AM

#35

Oldschool1990

    Veteran Trainer

  • Oldschool1990

I've got identical packs quite often, but the rare is always different.

Doesnt work with packs.

 

New theme decks URGENTLY NEED 4x Malasada.


Edited by Oldschool1990, 22 March 2018 - 08:42 AM.

Specialized on Theme Deck Tournaments.

Contra principia negantem non est disputandum.

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07 April 2018 - 06:43 AM

#36

ChaseMadrid

    Rookie Trainer

  • ChaseMadrid

THERE HAS NEVER BEEN SO MUCH IMBALANCE

The new decks specially mach strike deck is there in all the theme battles.

What is so imbalanced?:
1) There are 2 Garchomps which can do 200 damage easily. Solution: Either Ban Cynthia or Ban Lucario

2) Stage 1 pokemon with 110 hp can literally do 100 damage every turn with two energies.

3) Every evolvable pokemon has its evolution. For example: in Resilient life deck, there are many basic pokemon which can evolve but don't have evolveable cards(Spoink)

4) The ascension attacks are imbalanced since they ensure that even if Gible is on bench or active will always become Garchomp.

5) I have used EVERY DECK I HAVE-12 of them and still havent won a single time against this deck.

Also, Imperial command is also quite imbalanced.

Therefore, please stop killing your game making it a pay to win type of game that is who ever gets the new deck first wins.
 


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07 April 2018 - 07:40 AM

#37

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi

THERE HAS NEVER BEEN SO MUCH IMBALANCE

The new decks specially mach strike deck is there in all the theme battles.

What is so imbalanced?:
1) There are 2 Garchomps which can do 200 damage easily. Solution: Either Ban Cynthia or Ban Lucario

2) Stage 1 pokemon with 110 hp can literally do 100 damage every turn with two energies.

3) Every evolvable pokemon has its evolution. For example: in Resilient life deck, there are many basic pokemon which can evolve but don't have evolveable cards(Spoink)

4) The ascension attacks are imbalanced since they ensure that even if Gible is on bench or active will always become Garchomp.

5) I have used EVERY DECK I HAVE-12 of them and still havent won a single time against this deck.

Also, Imperial command is also quite imbalanced.

Therefore, please stop killing your game making it a pay to win type of game that is who ever gets the new deck first wins.
 

I won't deny that Mach Strike is a really powerful deck. But really, do you want theme decks to have a whole bunch of useless pokemon again like in Resilient Life? I certainly don't.

 

Also Mach Strike and Imperial Command are real-life theme decks. The devs didn't make these decks and thus they can never be altered. They MIGHT get banned in the online game (since there is no theme format irl), but it is EXTREMELY unlikely.

 

The only short term solution is to maybe release a good fairy theme deck (either the devs or TPCi) to counter Mach Strike. I say short term cuz eventually a newer, stronger theme deck will come and take Mach Strike's place as the strongest theme deck and this whole fiasco starts all over again.

 

There has never been so much imbalance? Uhh.... might wanna look up on the legendary Primal Crushing Current. It was so much stronger than anything that was ever seen at that time and it got the nerf hammer which turned it into the mediocre theme deck it is today.


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07 April 2018 - 12:04 PM

#38

SingingFlyEx

    Trainer

  • SingingFlyEx

Therefore, please stop killing your game making it a pay to win type of game that is who ever gets the new deck first wins.
 

It seems you're stuck in a frustrating situation where you don't have the 500 tokens to buy Mach Strike/Imperial Command and thus have a very low win rate in theme versus games.

The problem is not that it's pay to win, but 1. that you didn't receive good advice to avoid this situation (users should be directed towards the strongest theme decks) 2. that matchmaking does not let you wait for an opponent with a comparable power level deck, making older theme decks mostly unplayable.

 

Solutions:

1. win tokens from trainer challenges (or some reasonably doable daily challenges)

2. log in daily for 60 days

3. buy a few codes (1-2$) and trade the packs for the alolan dugtrio/starmie standard deck. This is a good standard deck for climbing the ladders, probably the cheapest one and fun to play. Set up your own trades, the offers on the public board are rip-offs.


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24 April 2018 - 07:26 AM

#39

Eden2902

    Senior Trainer

  • Eden2902
Now played a few theme deck games and can say: That's the end for me. Standard, even that I won nearly every match, takes time and the before fast theme deck mode is now more like standard and takes also much time just to face two decks again and again. That game as a whole gets from last year august where I started playing mire and more bad. Beside Zoroark and Cynthia there aren't useful cards since many months, theme deck makes no fun anymore and standard is filled with bad garchomp deck which I easily crush with my Gardevoir deck but its the same again and again and also get boring. I really don't understand that a Pokemon (!!!) game can be that much destroyed. It's not the fault of the online game, this is ok (but could be much better if it would be intended). It's the very curious delivery of new cards. Anything after Guardian rising is more or less just for the collection. Gardevoir GX is still the best deck and if well designed nearly unbeatable. And playing the same deck again and again makes that game boring.

The cake is a lie!

  • -1

24 April 2018 - 04:42 PM

#40

SingingFlyEx

    Trainer

  • SingingFlyEx

standard is filled with bad garchomp deck which I easily crush with my Gardevoir deck but its the same again and again

After you've had enough wins / winrate you should normally be paired with better players/decks, so no more garchomps. You should face e.g. buzzwole-lycanroc, garbodor-espeon, zoroark-anything decks.

Perhaps you lose more often than you think. (disconnection counts as loss)

Or you play at a time not many good players are playing worldwide.


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