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Rythcan

New decks are killing Theme play

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Rythcan

The new Ultra Prism decks released are slowly going to kill theme play. All I see is the same deck over and over. Almost all of the theme decks I have collected over the years are pretty much useless against the new decks. Really Pokémon Company? Maybe split the theme play so 1 type of deck doesn't dominate it. Fast way to drive away players is to frustrate them by making things they collected over the years useless. Also bring back unlimited. 

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Harion

yeah, theme play is really boring now. i avoid it if i can.

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Mod_Vengr

Thank you for your feedback, I'll share it with our dev team!

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canoirB

I agree, Mach Strike is so easy to pilot once you have Garchomp/Lucario.

 

Also Garchomp having 0 retreat cost compared to main threats of other decks is quite ridiculous.

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Mod_Rowan

 

 

Also Garchomp having 0 retreat cost compared to main threats of other decks is quite ridiculous.

 

Thanks for your feedback as well, canoirB!

 

I have submitted your suggestion to the developers for their review as well.
 
Thank you for your post!

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JCGC378

I have to agree.  I play almost exclusively theme, and it's now virtually impossible to even do challenges with anything other than the most recent 2 decks.  They're absurdly more powerful than everything else.  I'm not sure that there's anything that can be done about it, but it has pretty much destroyed theme.  It's either play Mach Strike, Imperial Command or don't bother.

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Eden2902

I destroyed a mach strike deck with the hydreigon deck. But it was very close. Pretty fast new decks.

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Chasista

I'm compiling data, match after match, to see how much times I play against Mach strike, and how many against others. Still 20 battles only (more or less) but, results are pretty like I thought before starting the tests. I want more battles for more accurate results. Though...

 

... an HGSS theme mode, B/W Theme mode, XY Theme mode and S&M Theme mode separate would be great. Still Mach Strike (and also Imperial command) would be ruling the latest mode. But still a bit of variety because, last 2 decks made useless the Theme mode with potentially 57 others (as not every decks still in game),

 

It's a bit weird and maybe would be harder to find opponent but, all that in-game shop Theme decks (lately CoL and now B/W base) would have some use more than trying (yes, trying with those as not so powerful) to beat Trainer's challenge.

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Eden2902

I'm compiling data, match after match, to see how much times I play against Mach strike, and how many against others. Still 20 battles only (more or less) but, results are pretty like I thought before starting the tests. I want more battles for more accurate results. Though...

 

... an HGSS theme mode, B/W Theme mode, XY Theme mode and S&M Theme mode separate would be great. Still Mach Strike (and also Imperial command) would be ruling the latest mode. But still a bit of variety because, last 2 decks made useless the Theme mode with potentially 57 others (as not every decks still in game),

 

It's a bit weird and maybe would be harder to find opponent but, all that in-game shop Theme decks (lately CoL and now B/W base) would have some use more than trying (yes, trying with those as not so powerful) to beat Trainer's challenge.

Thats not a good idea. Ok atm many use the new decks, but they aren't unbeatable. With the Hydreigon deck I won 6 of 6 vs the new decks. Too many player simply thinking that the new decks are auotowin, so beside the strength of the new decks, the most players really suck in this game so :D
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Oldschool1990

That's the thing with power creep. The latest 2 theme decks from the latest set will now always take the top spot.

Actually, a valid business tactic, as players always need to get the newest cards in order to beeing able to win some games.

 

I think this problem will fix itself tho when we get more power creep decks of different types so type weakness may become relevant again. Like, in the next 4 or 5 sets we got alot more decks to build our metagame around.

 

Atm it's pretty monotone; fighting types, dragons, some water mons, that's it.

I hope they bring in more different type combinations so we can have our classical rock-paper-scizors thingy back.

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Eden2902

That's the thing with power creep. The latest 2 theme decks from the latest set will now always take the top spot.

Actually, a valid business tactic, as players always need to get the newest cards in order to beeing able to win some games.

 

I think this problem will fix itself tho when we get more power creep decks of different types so type weakness may become relevant again. Like, in the next 4 or 5 sets we got alot more decks to build our metagame around.

 

Atm it's pretty monotone; fighting types, dragons, some water mons, that's it.

I hope they bring in more different type combinations so we can have our classical rock-paper-scizors thingy back.

thats a good point. Very few types available. I mean, there is a strong dragon deck and no fairy available. Thats stupid... In standard I have all the cards, but the development in theme decks is not well-thought. Oh and the element steel doesn't really exist in theme deck. Maybe an ape try to make the decks? Idk
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Moo0000000000

Yeah I made a thread suggesting a multi-queue system that others sort of shot down. Then would be able to queue with XY decks vs XY decks due to sun and moons power creep being out of control. The new Garchomp deck is pretty insane, mucho draw support, superior deck search with the fighting dude with garchomp out, ascension to set up, big attacks, low energy costs.......yeah and free retreat.... LOL ...... maybe was developed for humors sake.

Edited by Moo0000000000
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Rythcan

 

 

 

That's the thing with power creep. The latest 2 theme decks from the latest set will now always take the top spot.

 

Actually, a valid business tactic, as players always need to get the newest cards in order to beeing able to win some games.

 

 

 

I think this problem will fix itself tho when we get more power creep decks of different types so type weakness may become relevant again. Like, in the next 4 or 5 sets we got alot more decks to build our metagame around.

 

 

 

Atm it's pretty monotone; fighting types, dragons, some water mons, that's it.

 

I hope they bring in more different type combinations so we can have our classical rock-paper-scizors thingy back.

Sure its a valid business tactic till the players get fed up and the game starts bleeding players like every other foolish company that has tried it. At this point till they balance the game I'm outta here back to MTG at least they have their **** together, and they are original unlike ever other clone after like Pokémon. Yes pokemon is a clone of MTG. MMMM energy= mana, pokemon= creatures, tools/support= spells wow another clone. Cya

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KianEndacott

I agree, the new decks have completely ruined the game.  All I ever see are the same two packs, and the same cards are played each time.  Lucky to last more than three turns before you are blown away...

 

I'd be interested to know how much the concede rate has increased - I suspect it has jumped exponentially.

Edited by KianEndacott
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Eden2902

I really don't know what the problem is, I mostly play the Hydreigon deck and have 100% success rate vs the new decks. Yes, the new decks are very good because first time the devs take more than 2secs for deck building, BUT seriously the most players can't play the deck. So there are still easy wins :)

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KatJohnson601

Almost every time I’ve gone against an Ultra Prism deck they are knocking me out before I can even get more than one energy attached. It’s a ridiculously unbalanced game play with that deck on board. The advantage makes it less and less enjoyable and I find myself wanting to play less and less. I am so disappointed with the company’s management of this new set in terms of allowing immediate use in game play and especially in tournaments, and as far as like the OP said not managing the tourney categories in a way that maintains a certain degree of fairness in the expectations of the game. I now want to quit the second a theme tourney starts and I see Ultra Prism across from me because what’s the point you can employ the best strategy on a decent deck and it doesn’t matter the strategy is built into the UP deck so the other player can barely pay attention and just crush you in one or two moves. I used to love this game and this is ruining it.

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Mod_GuruLot

Almost every time I’ve gone against an Ultra Prism deck they are knocking me out before I can even get more than one energy attached. It’s a ridiculously unbalanced game play with that deck on board. The advantage makes it less and less enjoyable and I find myself wanting to play less and less. I am so disappointed with the company’s management of this new set in terms of allowing immediate use in game play and especially in tournaments, and as far as like the OP said not managing the tourney categories in a way that maintains a certain degree of fairness in the expectations of the game. I now want to quit the second a theme tourney starts and I see Ultra Prism across from me because what’s the point you can employ the best strategy on a decent deck and it doesn’t matter the strategy is built into the UP deck so the other player can barely pay attention and just crush you in one or two moves. I used to love this game and this is ruining it.

Hello KatJohnson601,

 

You are doing a great job by sharing your thoughts in this forum. I'm passing your suggestion to the developers.

 

Thank you!

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Eden2902

Almost every time I’ve gone against an Ultra Prism deck they are knocking me out before I can even get more than one energy attached. It’s a ridiculously unbalanced game play with that deck on board. The advantage makes it less and less enjoyable and I find myself wanting to play less and less. I am so disappointed with the company’s management of this new set in terms of allowing immediate use in game play and especially in tournaments, and as far as like the OP said not managing the tourney categories in a way that maintains a certain degree of fairness in the expectations of the game. I now want to quit the second a theme tourney starts and I see Ultra Prism across from me because what’s the point you can employ the best strategy on a decent deck and it doesn’t matter the strategy is built into the UP deck so the other player can barely pay attention and just crush you in one or two moves. I used to love this game and this is ruining it.

I play PTCGO just if I want variety, mostly I play the"real" Pokemon games where skill affect battles and luck isn't a win condition. I don't see PTCGO as a competitive platform, it's more a no-brainer for Pokemonfans because you play a game which contains Pokemon, but ISN'T Pokemon. I play daily, but just for a few minutes, because:

- every other Pokemon game is developed with much more love and take much more care of the users wishes

- the card game is too much luck based to say "I am the very best". Even if I have winning series' 10+ it never comes into my mind, that I am "good" or something.

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nstimmell

The power creep is not a valid business strategy customers first always! Pokémon is screwing up by releasing cards that target the older ones but as many have said hydreigon is the answer for mach but why the heck would any kind of a business exclude any theme decks from the fun tisk tisk pokemon. The point is to please consumers not anger them LOL. See the movie Tommy Boy and the bread roll scene :) and then I smash it into little pieces LOL even better is the kid saying I play hydregion like a good little puppet over and over and I always win # autonomous consumer zombie #corporate sellout :) Pokémon should have no business in herding people or telling them what to do that's the way Ash would want it!      

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SingingFlyEx

We play mostly theme decks and we like it.

The two ultra prism decks are difficult to play optimally. Trying to reach that level probably takes 100s of games. It's a worthwile goal imho. Sure, most matches are decided by RNG (start, draws, prizes, coin flips). They're usually quick matches. But the 10-20% remaining games are mostly skill-based, in the sense that if a player misplays or chooses a route with lower odds then the other has a rather high chance of winning.

It won't get old for me until those “I lost because I did this and should have done that” moments disappear. Those are worthwhile losses.

I hope the next decks will be at the same power level. This will make optimal playing even more difficult.

 

We'd also like to play non-newest theme decks for a change. I've made a suggestion that it's better to wait longer and meet a deck with a comparable power level. No user replied, nobody upvoted.

This would solve the problem though. If users were prompted with some message e.g. “opponents with a similar deck couldn't be found, wait longer or click here to be matched with any opponent”, this would act like an on-demand separate queue.

 

tl;dr The newest decks are great, theme play is not being killed, but matchmaking should be improved.

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Oldschool1990

NEW THEME DECKS: (second types are only predictions)

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) <- My prediction: gets Alolan Marowak / Pyroar (fire) split

Lycanroc (fighting) <- My prediction: gets Florges (fairy) split

What do you guys think about those?

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) 160HP stage1
(Grass) Tropical Shake: 20+
This attack does 20 more damage for each type of Basic Energy card in your discard pile. You can't add more than 100 damage in this way.
weakness: fire // resistance: none // retreat cost: (3)


Lycanroc (fighting) 120 HP stage1
(Fighting)(colorless) Dangerous Rogue: 20+
This attack does 20 more damage for each of your opponent's Benched Pokémon.
(Fighting)(Fighting)(colorless)Accelerock: 100
weakness: grass // resistance: none // retreat cost: (2)

Edited by Oldschool1990

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Chasista

NEW THEME DECKS: (second types are only predictions)

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) <- My prediction: gets Alolan Marowak / Pyroar (fire) split

 

Lycanroc (fighting) <- My prediction: gets Florges (fairy) split

 

What do you guys think about those?

 

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) 160HP stage1

(Grass) Tropical Shake: 20+

This attack does 20 more damage for each type of Basic Energy card in your discard pile. You can't add more than 100 damage in this way.

weakness: fire // resistance: none // retreat cost: (3)

 

Lycanroc (fighting) 120 HP stage1

(Fighting)(colorless) Dangerous Rogue: 20+

This attack does 20 more damage for each of your opponent's Benched Pokémon.

(Fighting)(Fighting)(colorless)Accelerock: 100

weakness: grass // resistance: none // retreat cost: (2)

 

It will everything depend on partners. How much lonely useless basic are included and the thick of the evo lines.

 

Not waiting the trainers to be as good as a pair of Cynthia. This is only in one deck, either Imperial Command lacks a bit from this. Tow Lillie would have been huge.

 

About Exeggutor, probably will be "useless" in the Theme. Unless they add a ton of different type energies, will be a Stage 1 hitting 60 as much. Is quite good for 1 energy but, is not suposed to be the star of the deck? Garchomp does 100+ same as Empoleon, easy. Let's see how fast we are able to get the Exeggutors.

 

About Lycanroc, I like it. Kind of Empoleon attack although second attack will be hard to set up.

 

Some Imperial command pokémon will suffer weakness from Exeguttor's deck. But not the main ones. Also Lycanroc. I would love to see some dark pokémon with Lycanroc (Pancham, evolving into Pangoro <3 ) but I don't thing so :( Maybe Psy, there's a lot of Psy cards.

 

I hope there will be Diantha if they add fairy (and there's also a lot so, it could be!)

Edited by Chasista

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grriffinn

NEW THEME DECKS: (second types are only predictions)

 

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) <- My prediction: gets Alolan Marowak / Pyroar (fire) split

 

Lycanroc (fighting) <- My prediction: gets Florges (fairy) split

 

What do you guys think about those?

 

Alolan Exeggutor (grass) 160HP stage1

(Grass) Tropical Shake: 20+

This attack does 20 more damage for each type of Basic Energy card in your discard pile. You can't add more than 100 damage in this way.

weakness: fire // resistance: none // retreat cost: (3)

 

 

Lycanroc (fighting) 120 HP stage1

(Fighting)(colorless) Dangerous Rogue: 20+

This attack does 20 more damage for each of your opponent's Benched Pokémon.

(Fighting)(Fighting)(colorless)Accelerock: 100

weakness: grass // resistance: none // retreat cost: (2)

 

The Alolan Exeggutor theme deck is going to be really iffy due to Tropical Shake requiring 5 types of basic Energy to hit for maximum damage, it's going to have to rely on its partners to hit for higher damage outputs.

 

The Dusk Forme Lycanroc theme deck is a bit better, its first attack is essentially a weaker version of Lycanroc-GX GRI's GX attack.

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KianEndacott

The new Ultra Prism decks released are slowly going to kill theme play. 

 

I wouldn't say slowly - I'd say they've already killed it off.  You only see two packs now, and most games are lucky to last more than three hands because opponents just concede.  When your opponent can draw almost half their deck in 2-3 hands, there is no longer strategy involved, it is simply hope to heck you get a a better draw than they do.

And let's not mention the bad card draws which are clearly no longer random - I've started a tally on the number of identical hands that I draw first round.  So far I've had five identical mulligans in a row, 4 identical single Pokemon and energy in a row, and 7 cases where I have drawn not a single energy in the first four turns.  And that is all since the new rewards started this week. 

Edited by KianEndacott

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Froznsaga

Agreed. Mach Strike isn't a fair deck for theme play. Anymore, I just concede to trainers playing that deck...or at least when Gabite comes into play. It's no fun.

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