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We want the DEVs to address the 50% increase in game times!


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11 November 2015 - 02:09 PM

#1

MarquisEXB

    Junior Trainer

  • MarquisEXB

It's been a week since the last update and a majority of pokemon online players are unhappy with the changes. I think as a whole we've been very clear on the main problem of the new version: the game time is too long. People are unhappy with other various aspects (stacking cards, waste of space, mouse over, loss of undo, etc.), but it's the slower game time that is overwhelmingly a problem.

 

This change wasn't caused by anything other than forcing the animations on all users, and changing the drag & drop functionality. In other words, you "fixed" two things that weren't actually broken. 

 

The increase in length of game isn't just an illusion due to a new interface. It's been proven empirically here in this forum by a meticulous user. This is an instance where gut feeling matches up perfectly with actual facts.

 

The people who are upset aren't a small minority of malcontents. According to the poll on this forum 93% of the users surveyed are unhappy with the changes. I would like to point out how overwhelming his number is. Also note this may not include people who have are unaware of the forum, bothered to vote, or who have quit altogether. 

 

We've been asked to wait & give it a try. Well it's been a week and we are still unhappy. We've waited. We've given it a try. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

 

DEV TEAM: What is your plan to address the increased length of game time due to the additions by this latest update?

 

Your post on the 2.33 update has changed since it's initial release, but it doesn't address the longer game play.

 

And your last response skirted the issue. You mentioned that usership is up, but this doesn't account for the expected increase due to a new set being released. You also touted that game length is slightly longer. Yet this doesn't account for people disconnecting quicker due to frustration with slower game play.

 

We know that the games take longer. We know this has upset a majority of players. And we want to hear from you on how this will be fixed.

 

 


  • 19

11 November 2015 - 02:33 PM

#2

jbcheshire

    Veteran Trainer

  • jbcheshire

I totally agree with his statements!!

I have not played in a week because games take way too long to finish now compared to previously.  And when I did log in to redeem some packs, the game app crashed as I was opening my first pack.  So, there are some stability issues that need to be addressed as well.  

 

Please respond in some fashion to let us know if you are even thinking about making some changes to the mechanics to where we can turn off the animations, or if you do not plan on doing that.  That way most of us SERIOUS players will know if we just need to give up on you and the Pokemon TCGO and move on and stop filling your forums full of our displeasure with this new release.

 

Thank you.

A serious player who loves the game of Pokemon TCG


  • 3

11 November 2015 - 03:39 PM

#3

ProffesorY

    Trainer

  • ProffesorY

I'm with you, it's a fix-or-quit situation and they think we are bluffing. Well, 93% of us don't.


  • 1

11 November 2015 - 04:14 PM

#4

Loklan

    Novice Trainer

  • Loklan

Yes, agree.

 

Any product can hit a snag.

 

It is neither shameful nor a sign of incompetence to admit there might have been some collective misjudgment on the appetite for these new changes amongst your users. This is neither a unique situation nor an unusual concurrence in product development.

 

What is needed is some genuine communication of your intention to your users. Maybe these changes are a part of some long-term design we don't know of, who knows? We are completely in the dark at the moment.

 

Even a "we are still deciding what to do, but all options are still on the table" - if sincere - would go a long way.

 

Right now you have communicated to the forum that some more changes are underway (such as reiterating on the opening coin flip sequence). This is a step in the right direction, and much appreciated.

 

But the lack of communication on whether there is going to be any consideration to changing the substantive issues many have raised - in particular animation times - reads like it is deliberate obfuscation and skirting around the real issues. I doubt that is actually the case, but can you really doubt some for thinking this?


  • 2

11 November 2015 - 04:22 PM

#5

PsychicInfinity

    Rookie Trainer

  • PsychicInfinity

But haven't you heard, Samhayne insists that average game length is only up about one minute across the board. That has nothing to do with the fact that several decks aren't even played anymore and the amount people concede just because a match is tedious is way up since the patch, I'm sure.

 

:rolleyes:


  • 0

12 November 2015 - 12:28 AM

#6

MarquisEXB

    Junior Trainer

  • MarquisEXB

I've seen Mod_Poplar saying she'll pass along some threads and not others. I'm curious

 

1. What are the qualifications for this to occur?

 

2. Isn't the dev team reading this forum already? I mean, they'd kinda have to - if they wanted to do their job effectively no? 


  • 0

12 November 2015 - 01:09 AM

#7

kalendae

    Veteran Trainer

  • kalendae

those are just polite things they say to make people feel like theres a more immediate response.

 

it's always slight variations on the same canned response. that is part of the job of a forum moderator.  they probably do not actually have much sway on product decisions.  

 

whats gonna have a sway on product decisions will be if there is a massive drop in hours played despite a new set releasing - their retention rates.  so the real question is always whether the thing you are complaining about is actually enough to make you stop playing.  people who complain loudest are often just more addicted and still play the most.  personally I am taking a hiatus until either they speed up the game or my memories of the faster better times fade enough for me to stomach the new ui.

 

 

I've seen Mod_Poplar saying she'll pass along some threads and not others. I'm curious

 

1. What are the qualifications for this to occur?

 

2. Isn't the dev team reading this forum already? I mean, they'd kinda have to - if they wanted to do their job effectively no? 


  • 0

12 November 2015 - 01:28 AM

#8

Nanomachines

    Rookie Trainer

  • Nanomachines

It's been nearly a week since my last game. The best way to convey our displeasure to the dev team is through data, since that's all they seem to care about. I've got much better things to do with my time anyway.


  • 0

12 November 2015 - 01:39 AM

#9

DesDaddy

    Elite Trainer

  • DesDaddy

It's been a week since the last update and a majority of pokemon online players are unhappy with the changes. I think as a whole we've been very clear on the main problem of the new version: the game time is too long. People are unhappy with other various aspects (stacking cards, waste of space, mouse over, loss of undo, etc.), but it's the slower game time that is overwhelmingly a problem.

 

This change wasn't caused by anything other than forcing the animations on all users, and changing the drag & drop functionality. In other words, you "fixed" two things that weren't actually broken. 

 

The increase in length of game isn't just an illusion due to a new interface. It's been proven empirically here in this forum by a meticulous user. This is an instance where gut feeling matches up perfectly with actual facts.

 

The people who are upset aren't a small minority of malcontents. According to the poll on this forum 93% of the users surveyed are unhappy with the changes. I would like to point out how overwhelming his number is. Also note this may not include people who have are unaware of the forum, bothered to vote, or who have quit altogether. 

 

We've been asked to wait & give it a try. Well it's been a week and we are still unhappy. We've waited. We've given it a try. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

 

DEV TEAM: What is your plan to address the increased length of game time due to the additions by this latest update?

 

Your post on the 2.33 update has changed since it's initial release, but it doesn't address the longer game play.

 

And your last response skirted the issue. You mentioned that usership is up, but this doesn't account for the expected increase due to a new set being released. You also touted that game length is slightly longer. Yet this doesn't account for people disconnecting quicker due to frustration with slower game play.

 

We know that the games take longer. We know this has upset a majority of players. And we want to hear from you on how this will be fixed.

 

 

But haven't you heard, Samhayne insists that average game length is only up about one minute across the board. That has nothing to do with the fact that several decks aren't even played anymore and the amount people concede just because a match is tedious is way up since the patch, I'm sure.

 

:rolleyes:

 

I don't know if any of you know me, but I have played a LOT of PTCGO over the last couple years.  I can tell you that as of game version 2.32 update, my battles in Standard and Expanded are at least 100% longer than they were in 2.31.

 

That's right, my battles are at least twice as long as they were before.  I have surveyed enough battles of mine to know this accurately.

 

The 50% longer information from that guy in the link above had to do primarily with Theme Decks battles (which have less actions because of the way those decks are built compared to competitive Standard and Expanded decks).  I'm not arguing against that, I agree Theme Deck battles are 50% longer now (what would take to make a 6 minute game in 2.31 now takes at least 9 minutes in 2.32).

 

But for Standard and Expanded, in my experience, and in the experience of my good friends who play a lot of PTCGO, battles now are at least twice as long. :(  over 100% longer than they were before.  And that's with me now used to this new 2.32 that still makes me want to be sick, for several reasons..

 

What would be acceptable is to go back to how fast battles went in 2.31.  Now, if they wanted to make an IMPROVEMENT on the speed of battles in 2.31, that would be great, but we are all dying here just to have things acceptable again (the speed of battles in 2.31).  How terrible is that, that we the community are begging the Mods/Devs that we just want things to be acceptable.  In reality, any product that gets released is better than the version before it. 

 

Here we are with PTCGO just wanting the newest version to be the same gameplay speed as the former version, lol.   I can't think of any other product in the world where people are begging for the former version.
  At least in the world a person can buy a 2015 Porsche instead of a 2016 if he really needs to or wants, or a person can buy an older cell phone instead of the brand new one.  We are unable to do that, we have to be stuck with this awful gameplay speed of the "newest version" until someone at Pokemon International actually cares about what their users want...


  • 1

12 November 2015 - 03:18 AM

#10

phalanx1337

    Veteran Trainer

  • phalanx1337

2 games in a row for people to do naff all in their turn.. yet taking 1-2 minutes to do it is getting tiresome, its already late I am doing ladder, this is tiresome, first battle i mentioned their timer was down to 16 minutes...

and this one mine already is 4 minutes ahead.

either they are doing it on purpose or your game is flawed. but given this match they do something instantly then take ages.


Edited by phalanx1337, 12 November 2015 - 03:23 AM.

  • 0

12 November 2015 - 09:57 AM

#11

Awilk

    Novice Trainer

  • Awilk

2 games in a row for people to do naff all in their turn.. yet taking 1-2 minutes to do it is getting tiresome, its already late I am doing ladder, this is tiresome, first battle i mentioned their timer was down to 16 minutes...
and this one mine already is 4 minutes ahead.
either they are doing it on purpose or your game is flawed. but given this match they do something instantly then take ages.


I have seen an increase of people taking longer per turn myself. However I was playing only last night at my friends house playing against each other. Him on pc me on iPad. The whole game was running at least 20 seconds behind everything for me using the iPad.

Has this always been an issue or is it a recent development? This may go some way to explaining waiting around for the opponent?
  • 0

12 November 2015 - 04:33 PM

#12

MarquisEXB

    Junior Trainer

  • MarquisEXB

2 games in a row for people to do naff all in their turn.. yet taking 1-2 minutes to do it is getting tiresome, its already late I am doing ladder, this is tiresome, first battle i mentioned their timer was down to 16 minutes...

and this one mine already is 4 minutes ahead.

either they are doing it on purpose or your game is flawed. but given this match they do something instantly then take ages.

 

I've read on other sites of people changing their tactics to suit the new playing experience. Slower decks with more annoying tactics. One person referred to his "Rage Quit Deck". I wouldn't be surprised if people are just going slower.

 

Or maybe they're doing the dishes in between turns...


  • 0

12 November 2015 - 04:36 PM

#13

jbcheshire

    Veteran Trainer

  • jbcheshire

Yep, this is why I haven't played a game in over a week.  I miss playing but I can do without all of this junk...


  • 0

12 November 2015 - 05:08 PM

#14

VioletBroregard

    Junior Trainer

  • VioletBroregard

I think the animations are basically loading screens. I think something in this HUGE UPDATE!!!!! introduced a lot of lag and they are band-aiding over it with required animations because they're a lot prettier than staring at nothing for 15 seconds.


  • 0

12 November 2015 - 05:15 PM

#15

VioletBroregard

    Junior Trainer

  • VioletBroregard

I've seen Mod_Poplar saying she'll pass along some threads and not others. I'm curious

 

1. What are the qualifications for this to occur?

 

2. Isn't the dev team reading this forum already? I mean, they'd kinda have to - if they wanted to do their job effectively no? 

 

1. Probably just that it's an actionable request that they aren't already working on; "make the game faster" isn't really new information since they are probably scrambling to make the game perform better. But when I asked for a hand size indicator, that was a new thing, so that got forwarded on

 

2. The people who are actually making stuff probably don't read this. Odds are that the staff either doesn't directly read this forum at all except for what gets forwarded to them by the mods, or that only the product managers read the forum. The people writing code and copy and making art and music don't have to know the entire roadmap of the app, they just have to be good at making their piece of it.


  • 0

12 November 2015 - 05:43 PM

#16

MarquisEXB

    Junior Trainer

  • MarquisEXB

1. Probably just that it's an actionable request that they aren't already working on; "make the game faster" isn't really new information since they are probably scrambling to make the game perform better. But when I asked for a hand size indicator, that was a new thing, so that got forwarded on

 

2. The people who are actually making stuff probably don't read this. Odds are that the staff either doesn't directly read this forum at all except for what gets forwarded to them by the mods, or that only the product managers read the forum. The people writing code and copy and making art and music don't have to know the entire roadmap of the app, they just have to be good at making their piece of it.

 

The title of the forum is "Game Feedback".  If the team didn't want to read outside opinions on their product, this wouldn't exist. You don't put up a comment box in a store, if you didn't want to read the comments.

 

If some or all of the developer team isn't reading the bulk of this forum, then this is a huge failure on whoever setup it up.


  • 0

12 November 2015 - 07:02 PM

#17

VioletBroregard

    Junior Trainer

  • VioletBroregard

The title of the forum is "Game Feedback".  If the team didn't want to read outside opinions on their product, this wouldn't exist. You don't put up a comment box in a store, if you didn't want to read the comments.

 

If some or all of the developer team isn't reading the bulk of this forum, then this is a huge failure on whoever setup it up.

 

I write software for a living. I don't read what our customers are saying about our software, because it's obviously good enough that we have customers.  My company's customers give my company feedback, but turning feedback from customers and marketing and QA into a list of things for devs/artists/musicians/writers to make is an entire job by itself, and a hard one at that. I only see what the product managers show me, and that's good for everyone. I don't want a firehose of complaints, I just want to know what to make.


  • 1

12 November 2015 - 07:17 PM

#18

jbcheshire

    Veteran Trainer

  • jbcheshire

It appears then that there is a disconnect here for TCGO since there only appears to be developers and forum moderators.  Unless they are letting their developers be the product managers as well.  This is where Pokemon is severely lacking... 


  • 0

12 November 2015 - 07:38 PM

#19

MarquisEXB

    Junior Trainer

  • MarquisEXB

I write software for a living. I don't read what our customers are saying about our software, because it's obviously good enough that we have customers.  My company's customers give my company feedback, but turning feedback from customers and marketing and QA into a list of things for devs/artists/musicians/writers to make is an entire job by itself, and a hard one at that. I only see what the product managers show me, and that's good for everyone. I don't want a firehose of complaints, I just want to know what to make.

 

Agreed, I'm also in the IT industry, but not the software side. The people in the trenches can't always be exposed to the customers. There's a reason customers have to go through many levels before the problem reaches the exchange admins. And there's a reason the exchange admins aren't available to be contacted by users. For obvious reasons.

 

However there has to be a way for information to flow from one side to the other. I'm guessing you don't read what the customers are saying, but someone is disseminating that data for you (product manager).

And it goes the other way too. Back in my example the phone support person has to relay what's going on with the client to the exchange guy. But also relay information fro the server team to the user. A simple "They're aware of the problem with your mail, there was a network outage, and everything should be back up in an hour" goes a long way towards soothing an angry customer. Whoever is performing that role here isn't doing a great job relaying that type of information back from the dev team to us. Or the dev team isn't interested in the changes we're upset about so they can react. As an outsider I'm not sure, but there's a breakdown somewhere in the process.


  • 0

12 November 2015 - 09:23 PM

#20

sterlingW

    Expert Trainer

  • sterlingW

It's been a week since the last update and a majority of pokemon online players are unhappy with the changes. I think as a whole we've been very clear on the main problem of the new version: the game time is too long. People are unhappy with other various aspects (stacking cards, waste of space, mouse over, loss of undo, etc.), but it's the slower game time that is overwhelmingly a problem.

 

This change wasn't caused by anything other than forcing the animations on all users, and changing the drag & drop functionality. In other words, you "fixed" two things that weren't actually broken. 

 

The increase in length of game isn't just an illusion due to a new interface. It's been proven empirically here in this forum by a meticulous user. This is an instance where gut feeling matches up perfectly with actual facts.

 

The people who are upset aren't a small minority of malcontents. According to the poll on this forum 93% of the users surveyed are unhappy with the changes. I would like to point out how overwhelming his number is. Also note this may not include people who have are unaware of the forum, bothered to vote, or who have quit altogether. 

 

We've been asked to wait & give it a try. Well it's been a week and we are still unhappy. We've waited. We've given it a try. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

 

DEV TEAM: What is your plan to address the increased length of game time due to the additions by this latest update?

 

Your post on the 2.33 update has changed since it's initial release, but it doesn't address the longer game play.

 

And your last response skirted the issue. You mentioned that usership is up, but this doesn't account for the expected increase due to a new set being released. You also touted that game length is slightly longer. Yet this doesn't account for people disconnecting quicker due to frustration with slower game play.

 

We know that the games take longer. We know this has upset a majority of players. And we want to hear from you on how this will be fixed.

Actrally amount players are unable to play (That why you see very low playerbase) Until they restore about 95% of shorter game length. Players would return. 

 

Disable Option for Animiations to prevent and reduce unnecessary obstruction in competitive play.


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