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Producer's Letter: New v2.32 Play Experience Discussion

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MaSkullzOnFire

I really like the "drag and drop" idea. Just the other day I used Computer Search to search for a Zoroark only to accidentally click on a Prof. Juniper afterwards thus discarding the Zoroark ¬¬

Edited by MaSkullzOnFire
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Adhir1995

I really like the "drag and drop" idea. Just the other day I used Computer Search to search for a Zoroark only to accidentally click on a Prof. Juniper afterwards thus discarding the Zoroark ¬¬

May I ask what you mean by drag and drop? 

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MaSkullzOnFire

May I ask what you mean by drag and drop? 

"Deliberate Play: Click and Drag
We want to make sure you only play the cards you really mean to play.  Now, all cards are dragged and dropped into play, a more deliberate action than accidentally clicking or tapping a card. If you grab the wrong card by mistake, you can simply place it back into your hand to not play it.
 
As part of this, the ability to undo some actions has been removed.  Previously undo was confusing, in that some actions could be undone and some not, because of the order of operations.  The removal of undo also makes the TCG Online on par with real world TCG events, in that there are no “take backs.”  Additionally, the removal of undo also reduces overall complexity and the possibility of bugs.
 
Overall, by making playing cards a more deliberate action, we believe mistakes will be fewer and gameplay more straightforward." - Taken from the Producer's Letter.
Edited by MaSkullzOnFire
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Adhir1995

Woah! This sounds awesome! Thanks for the explanation!

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Felidae_

Can't give my final judgement on this till I've seen the game in action, but disabling the ability to disable animation seems... a bit odd.

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shinygeodude

Prize cards being stacked makes no sense and contradicts what you guys keep saying (in various contexts) about mimicking the real-life TCG, since they're spread out in real life.

Edited by shinygeodude
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Simplyobsessed

I don't like the idea of Energy showing underneath the Pokemon, it should replicate the real TCG where this doesn't happen. There was nothing wrong with how energy displayed and there is no need to 'fix' what wasn't broken. Same with the changes to prize cards. I liked how the game felt like the physical game and you are ruining that.

 

I am also not keen on not being able to turn off animations, if you play for a long time (as the VS ladder encourages players to do) it becomes tedious.

Edited by Simplyobsessed
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Mefftu

I really like the fact with the damage counters being now shown by one big damage counter with the number on it, it was very confusing at times when you have cards like Dusknoir in play to calculate the correct damage amount one needs for the KO.

 

The fact that there is no chance to disable attack animations seems like a good idea - I personally see it as a good thing as I always played with it before - hopefully others like it as well that played previously without those animations and now don't see this only as a big waste of time when attacks going all over the place.

 

Last but not least, undoing is removed is good and instead doing this drag and drop feature - seems like a good option here.

 

 

Looking forward to the new game after maintenance is finished. :D

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DonbranFL

Deviation from the generic, REQUIRED, layout in a real TCG game creates a disturbing disconnect for me. I appreciate clean, orderly things VERY much (energy, tools, and previous evolutions I appreciate). But the changed position of the deck, discard, and prizes is unsettling for me and many of my friends that play the physical card game.
 

Animations annoy me and many others a great deal. I find it hard to believe those AWFUL, lengthy animations of the previous build are cleaned up too much in this build, but I'll withhold judgement until after maintenance.

 

Drag-and-drop has always been a slow and tedious feature to me, even as a Hearthstone player. The ability to quickly, concisely choose cards I want to play is important to me, especially with lengthy, item-using turns with many popular decks in the format. Unless the drag-and-drop feature has been drastically improved, it's also very tedious pulling any item card you would like to play from your hand way up to where supporters were formerly placed.

I feel like while this visual updates look nice, they slow down the pace of competitive play for unnecessary things (attack animations, I'm looking at you) and will turn away players who like simplicity and can be provided said simplicity elsewhere.

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briliant

I feel like while this visual updates look nice, they slow down the pace of competitive play for unnecessary things (attack animations, I'm looking at you) and will turn away players who like simplicity and can be provided said simplicity elsewhere.

 

I completely agree, you guys are going to have a lot of unsatisfied experienced players if the drag-and-drop mechanic and game animations are going to be obligatory, unless they consume a lot less time than the current ones consume in the live game.
 
 
EDIT: I just played my first game post-patch. THE UPDATE IS SO BAD I COULDN'T EVEN WAIT FOR THE END OF THE MATCH. Here are the main points:
- HUGE resolution drop on the cards;
- The proportion of the active pokemon and the coins in relation with the benched ones is completely messed up;
- The wooden table covers a huge portion on the sides of the screen, keeping us from focusing on the board;
- The drag-and-drop system is a pain to bear with;
- The energy and item attachments with the pins, as well as the new prize display, are completely unnatural and against what you said was your goal (mimicking the actual game);
- The animations are, as expected, extremely lenghty and annoying.
 
I'm sorry for being so harsh, but when you give us something so bad as this you have to expect as bad of a reaction. Please undo this patch; the old game display was perfect: intuitive, quick, appealing, and, above all, shared many similarities with the real game, unlike this new display.
Edited by briliant
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Elavion

Definitely not a fan of enforced animations and forced drag and drop. This will make even the most one-sided games last much longer, and decks like Night March and vespiqueen will be basically 5 minute breaks between turns for the opponent.

 

I also belive the prize cards should be spread out, especially since there's definitely enough space for that.

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chickenman2015

I understand that a lot of people don't like it right now, but maybe once you start playing your mindset will change. Idk, Im not gonna leave negative or positive feedback till I actually experience it though. :)

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TPCi_Samhayne

We understand that change can be scary or unwelcome.  

 

The changes to animations have some very good reasons, as outlined in the original post.

 

We look forward to you spending some time with the game when the update is finished and posting your feedback from actual game play experience.

 

Thanks!

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DonbranFL

I appreciate the changes to make developers lives easier, but the inability for us very experienced players to not turn of things that are unnecessary to us that are more time consuming than needs to be in a format full of Battle Compressor, Trainer's Mail, and Ultra Ball, will only make it more difficult for us to enjoy games.

Like I said, I'll hold off final judgment until I can test it myself to see if it flows (I will most CERTAINLY be muting the game, sound affects are annoying IMO), but I have not been happy one bit since the first screenshots were released and I can't help but feel like no one in the development team is looking out for the fact that this game was supposed to be an online simulation, and not an overly-flashy, little-kid-attractor of a game designed to generate profit in an app store.

Edited by DonbranFL
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AdamisClassy

One thing I would like to see in future versions of the game is greater compatibility with touch screen laptops. This sounds like it would also pair very nicely with the drag and drop play feature being more widely implemented. I assume something like this exists for ipad versions of the game. I guess I'll just have to find out how the new version plays. Looking forward to it.

 

P.S. Just noticed that we will no longer be able to turn off animations. I'm very much against this decision. It sounds like there was some benefit to it programming wise, but you are going to get more push back from that than just about anything else you could have done. Hope the animations are streamlined, otherwise 2.33 can't come soon enough.

Edited by AdamisClassy
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Elavion

We understand that change can be scary or unwelcome.  

 

The changes to animations have some very good reasons, as outlined in the original post.

 

We look forward to you spending some time with the game when the update is finished and posting your feedback from actual game play experience.

 

Thanks!

 

Our point is, we don't think the Devs took into account the enormous amount of cards that top tier decks throw around each turn or even the amount of games we need to play to finish the VS ladder (about 380(!)). Until now I was able to do a turn in under 10 seconds when I didn't have to use complicated cards and 30 seconds was about maximum turn length when I was paying full attention. Unless you found a way to make drag&drop extremely fast (which I don't think is possible) this will extend even the fastest turns to at least 30 seconds, which means that ladder grinding will get significantly more time-consuming AND getting timed out will become a serious threat in tournaments. And playing against decks that shuffle a lot of cards around will just mean "Ok, you ended your turn. How about you go make a cup of tea now".

Edited by Elavion
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DonbranFL

One thing I would like to see in future versions of the game is greater compatibility with touch screen laptops. This sounds like it would also pair very nicely with the drag and drop play feature being more widely implemented. I assume something like this exists for ipad versions of the game. I guess I'll just have to find out how the new version plays. Looking forward to it.

 

I would also like to emphasize this, if the new version already doesn't work well. 2-in-1's are growing exceedingly in the laptop market, and are a great deal of fun in online card games when you can just fold it into a tablet.

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SalamenceRider

I'm not sure why so many people are complaining before the new mechanics are even playable. Even if drag/drop adds a few seconds to gameplay, at least it keeps mistakes from being made. And the time you waste there you make up by having so much easily viewable. I love the changes to how quickly you can see everything and clearing up the clutter.

The reason you spread prize cards out IRL os so your opponet can always know how many are left. If there's a counter, there's absolutely no reason to have them spread out online. 

Edited by TPCi_Samhayne
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DonbranFL

I'm not sure why so many people are complaining before the new mechanics are even playable. Even if drag/drop adds a few seconds to gameplay, at least it keeps mistakes from being made. And the time you waste there you make up by having so much easily viewable. I love the changes to how quickly you can see everything and clearing up the clutter.

 

The reason you spread prize cards out IRL os so your opponet can always know how many are left. If there's a counter, there's absolutely no reason to have them spread out online.  

 

For those of us that have been playing IRL for years, the strictly enforced layouts have become a part of how we play, and the physical data of the prizes being spread out feels right, versus reading a number and seeing how many you have left. It trades room on the board for something completely useless (the deckbox) for an important simulation feature. Ruining the simulation of an actual game takes the back seat when compared to extending gameplay time for animations and drag-and-drop mechanics, however.

Edited by TPCi_Samhayne
removed the insults
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TPCi_Samhayne

Regarding Drag 'n Drop, honestly in most cases it is the same two clicks.  Click on Pokémon Center Lady, click on which Pokémon to apply it to, for example.  Sure, there are some actions that were previously a single click that are now two - but those single clicks were "fraught with peril" in that an accidental click could mean a misplay. 

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bulbasaur32277

Bulbasaur is in the house. Me personally, I turn the animation off. I liked it when i first started but as time pass and you get more experience it does slow the game down. But I do approve of disabling the animation if what i think is going to happen will happen. You said in your letter:

 

"There is no longer the option to disable animations. This not only helps to reduce overall complexity to support the game and reduce the possibility of gameplay bugs, but it also keeps the experience consistent for anyone watching the game, be it streamed, recorded or viewed live".  

 

So I'm getting the feeling that we may have spectator mode now which is something I would LOVE to see. If that's the case then I completely agree with not having a choice to turn animation off because that would effect the viewers watching. Also it seems like you are hinting the ability to record matches and stream them somehow. So maybe they are leaning toward official real life tournaments being held online. That would be awesome for those who cant travel. I'm just speculating. I sure hope tournament sizes increase though instead of just 8. That would be great! Also please fix the ranking system where its not whoever grind the most get to be on top but based on skill. Like an Elo rating or something like they do in chess. 

 

P.S.: The drag and drop feature is fine. You don't waste that much time dragging the mouse across the screen unless you never used a mouse before. 

Edited by bulbasaur32277

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DonbranFL

Regarding Drag 'n Drop, honestly in most cases it is the same two clicks.  Click on Pokémon Center Lady, click on which Pokémon to apply it to, for example.  Sure, there are some actions that were previously a single click that are now two - but those single clicks were "fraught with peril" in that an accidental click could mean a misplay. 

The big concern is the movement time in which you would use multiple battle compressors, trainers mails, ultra/level balls, etc. in a turn and the effect that'll have in the ladder, when we're trying to reach that insane 2000 points with something besides Shiftry (since that deck will be assuredly unplayable with turns already upwards of 5-6 minutes).

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DonbranFL

Like an Emo rating or something like they do in chess. 

 

ELO, not EMO ahaha. Silly bulba and his auto-correct.

 

I agree, I would make a lot of sacrifices for annoying things if that brought around a better viewing, laddering, and tournament experience (bigger, better, faster, stronger, all that good stuff). Even if it took a toll on the PVP section of the board, the reason a lot of us feel compelled to play there is the lack of a good tournament online.

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