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VancouverDad

Finished TC with all opponents 4 stars, all leagues - feedback

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VancouverDad

Hi all,

 

So I went ahead and finished this. All opponents 4 stars, all 3 leagues. Here is my feedback.

 

Even on Godly, this feels like grinding. I found I averaged about 4000 points per game, playing the majority of time on Godly. That's 9 games per opponent. Just for easy numbers, let's say 10 games each opponent. Thus, I'm playing 120 games on average per league. Remember, that's average and there were times playing vs. weaknesses I sucked and even going down to Beginner it took me 15 games.

 

I had 8 decks to choose from. The Basic Red, Green, Blue and the Black and White version of Red, Green, Blue. I also had two decks from purchases of physical decks. Playing 120 games with just 8 decks gets pretty grinding. I don't know why other decks (such as Basic Yellow, etc.) weren't allowed but I'm assuming there were good reasons.

 

The AI was okay but could really use some tweaking. Sometimes it would switch an excellent active pokemon, fully loaded with one without any energy at all from the bench. I found those decks that contained EX cards seemed to have them come up suspiciously early (i.e. as the first active pokemon) more often than what I would consider chance but I could be mistaken.

 

Speaking of EX cards, I'm wondering about the algorithm for packs and opening the boosters given in trainer's challenge. Out of 45 boosters, I got only a single EX card. To rephrase that, out of 450 cards, I got a single EX card. I didn't notice the issue referred to on another thread that had essentially the same cards showing up in consecutive boosters. I know chance is chance and these are "free" boosters. But they are only "free" if you don't account the time put in to achieve them. I know I should be really excited about 450 cards, glass half full and stuff. But I was rather hoping to do more in the "Expert" rather than "Novice" category and from the little I've seen, EX cards dominate there. I'm not looking for a discussion about that but bluntly, I came away disappointed rather than really pumped from those 45 boosters.

 

I found finishing each league to be a bit "meh." Honestly, rather than the extra boosters, I'd rather get an item such as a cool coin to use in game, an excellent card back or even a playmat. Thus, I'd have something I can show in-game that I've completed the leagues that might be rather cool or unique. Seriously, after finishing the final league, it was just an, "eh". It was the same reward I got for each league even though I had accomplished the big goal rather than the small one. I had hoped for something rather special such as what I mentioned above or a deck or a special promotional card or *something*.

 

And I know this asking a lot, but if item rewards are put in, could they be retroactive? I really don't want to grind through those again just to get whatever it is. I'm not asking for any more cards, just any item awarded for completion.

 

Oh, the achievement badges are a bit hooped. By poisoning, paralyzing, sleeping, etc. a single opponent 5 times in a row I got the achievements for doing that to 5 opponents. The game number milestones made no sense to me. How could I get a 1000 opponents beat without getting multiples of the smaller milestones? I like them but it did take me a while to figure out the white stripe shows ****** stars completion. And that isn't consistent on the badges.

 

Overall, for a first implementation it was great. Gold star! ;) Thanks for the work and I'm looking forward to future improvements.

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Chris_P

So you think that free useful cards that you can add to your collection and play with are not as good a prize as decorative items and memorabilia that are not actually useful in any particular way?

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VancouverDad

Would I rather an item than cards? Within the situation I described above, yes, I would rather have an item to show off in-game than the two extra bonus decks at the completion of each league and the completion of all three.

 

There's a reason Ash battles for badges rather than a prize pokemon (usually). Despite having no actual use, it shows others you have reached a specific goal.

 

It fits nicely with the concept of leader boards. Leaderboards are honestly just bragging rights. All the rating, etc. is done behind the scenes and has no need to be shown publicly.

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MrKramer

I'm with Vancouverdad on this one, i think a "show off" price (like sleeves or a playmat) would be right for completing a league.

For completing a single trainer the booster packs are a good price.

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TwistedTreant

I have to say that you are right about the AI doing stupid things sometimes, i just played a game against a expert AI, guess what he did... He had 1 Pokémon out and used super scoop up, therefore he had no pokémon on his bench and i got a win without really doing anything :P

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JaredTheUnseen

One of the biggest problems I've had with the Trainer Challenge is the decks. While the new playable decks are great, some of the decks used by the AI are VERY difficult to defeat. The first one that comes to mind is Ali in the Gold League who uses a Psychic deck. She plays plenty of Team Plasma Giratina paired with Hypnotoxic Laser and Virbank City Gym. With just a bunch of Tepigs and Torchics chipping away at Giratina, she could easily KO six of my Pokémon before I had any way to respond! There are also plenty of cases as described above, where the AI would get their Pokémon EX out and just roll over me.

 

Having the Basic Orange deck as an option in the Trainer Challenge would have been very beneficial as well. I was surprised when I examined the choice of decks and noticed Basic Orange was absent. After losing a game, the program gives a prompt to try a different deck that would have a type advantage over that opponent's deck. This is difficult to do with only 3 different types available!

 

Overall I do thoroughly enjoy the Trainer Challenge. As stated above it does at times feel like I am "grinding" for the booster packs, although it usually isn't all that bad. It does give good experience in learning what the cards in certain decks do and what different ways they can be played in. But if it was not for the four theme decks I had available from purchasing them, I might have gotten very bored with the six available!

Edited by JaredTheUnseen

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VancouverDad

Twistedtreant, I had that happen several times and it is noted in another thread under bugs, I think.

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GR0

I'm currently waiting for Plasma Freeze to be added to the game (and as such, to be added to the pool of potential pack rewards), only 4-starred the Gold League, but I can also give some feedback which Jared already did in a way:

 

The difficulty of the AI decks. As it stands, only very few are actually beatable by theme decks (and I have ALL theme decks). ALL my wins are simply AI stupidity, luck (or bad luck for the AI), or type advantage. None of my battles (except those against those few AI with balanced decks) are actually won by skill. And that's really unfortunate.

 

As I suggested once before: hopefully in the future we get to unlock all the AI decks (for Trainer Challenge only, not for Versus of course, that's what packs are for). Once the AI gets fixed, that will make for far more enjoyable Trainer Challenge battles.

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FlyingChzsecake

how are you getting 4k points a match? ive never got over 1.7k even when i dont drop a prize

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VancouverDad

Flyingchzsecake, be sure to play on Expert or Hard if you can. The 1.5 and the 2 X multipliers add up.

 

Excellent nick btw. Now I'm hungry....

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rileyy

i only finished 3 trainers from the challenge, i got a tornadus EX from one of these packs :D

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Syaieya

I will agree with the consensus here. The new decks certainly are more difficult, perhaps too much so for the basic theme decks. And the difficulty doesn't seem to be in line with the settings they allow for the opponents. I can't see any difference comparing the intermediate to the expert. Even the easier AI becomes crushingly hard when you give them cards like that. Some of the older theme decks just fall flat due to power creep.

 

What's really worrying though is that for the new player, especially the ones that just joined after the update, the first few decks in the gold league are just brutal. Maybe if they were platinum decks it would be fine difficulty but the gold league now allows no time to let people get their feet wet. I've seen my friends play with completely fresh, not upgraded decks that literally couldn't touch the bouffalant combination in the first deck and had to wait for him to play the not that. Then they go from that to an EX right out of the box against the second deck.

 

As for the weird pack draws, I personally haven't had anything strange, but I've only had the few odd ones given by the daily bonuses and beating a couple trainer challenges. I've most likely had 15 free packs and gotten a single EX and a couple other interesting things. I'm a little worried going forward though that I'll be disappointed with getting the random packs that I'll just end up with stacks of unusable cards from sets I don't care for. I do like the thought of getting other bonuses for clearing trainer challenge though. An AI deck or some sort of thing to show off the accomplishment would be nice.

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Apophys_MD

I also completed the entire trainer challenge on 4 stars a few days ago.

 

@OP - The highest difficulty is called Expert, not Godly. Godly is when you get 6000 or more points in a battle. :P

Only got one EX from my packs as well (Mewtwo EX, actually in my 2nd pack). Bad luck, I guess.

 

 

I found that I got 5000+ often enough for the grind to be bearable; it normally took me about 7 battles to clear a trainer. I even cleared one in 5 battles by the end.

 

A few tips to get points faster:

- Only battle on Expert difficulty, because of the points scaling. If you get donked on Expert, you get about the same points as a normal win on Beginner. So you don't really have anything to lose, but you have a lot to gain. And the AI isn't really that much harder.

- Only use the new R/G/B decks to grind; their trainer lines are better (more consistency).

- When none of the 3 decks have a type advantage, use the new basic green. It has DCE and healing, which boost your points, and Bouffalant and Serperior are wonderful attackers.

- Evolve everything you can, attach energy, and draw as many cards as you can, even if you don't need to in order to win.

 

I managed to get a high score of 8750 in a battle, as I posted with a screenshot on a thread in this subforum.

 

 

I don't find the opponents' decks too hard to battle, especially considering how great a handicap the AI is, and considering elemental weakness where applicable. The majority of my losses occurred when Mick started with Entei EX active, since with 3 energy it could OHKO anything other than the stage 2s in the water deck, which are not that easy to get out, and it has a lot of HP. Otherwise, employing meat shields while powering a benched attacker got me out of nearly all tough spots.

Edited by Apophys_MD

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arsenalist

i got 6 ex es out of the 45 packs. most lower tier ones (2/3 fa) though. the best one was a keldeo ex non-fa. :) i lost some but i played mostly with new basic green (only fire opponents with water) and it took about 7/8 battles each trainer including losses. for quite a few 5 was enough. :)

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Linnell

I have to agree with Apophys_MD for the most part. All though I haven't pulled any EX's yet out of any of my free 30 packs, in fact I haven't pulled anything useful or worth while except for a foil Golurk and FA N, I'm not complaining because I know its all computer randomly generated and you can't expect an EX all the time, that just wouldn't be fair, it's not like you'll pull an EX in every pack you open in IRL, you're lucky if you get 1 out a booster box.

 

As for the difficulty of trainer challenge.......it can be very difficult, especially when the AI starts off with an EX as active and another on bench or in 1 case, this only happened once thank goodness, the AI gets 100% heads on all coin flips for the attack Powerful Slap starting with 80 damage on first turn (DCE was attached) and increasing the damage every turn until it was hitting for 280. I couldn't get a move in on that match. But it is called Trainer CHALLENGE for a reason, its supposed to be challenging. If you actually try to put some skill into it, you can come up with some crafty combos to eliminate those EXs without having an EX of your own. As I have posted before, Boufflant and Raticate make fore excellent meat shields and attackers, Raticates' Super Fang has won me more matches against EXs in trainer challenge than I can recall. Also if you lose too many times with one deck try another, keeping in mind that green brings DCE and Heal, blue brings multi-KO and heavy draw/search, and red brings 1-2 hit KO's and you need to make sure you make the MOST OF EVERY CARD in those decks. Yes most of them are considered pretty useless but when you have high cost attacks and no DCE (if your not running green) exp. share comes in real handy for example.

 

Over all I'm enjoying it because earning each of those packs is exciting in its own way and its kinda like getting gifts at Christmas when you don't know what they are until you open them, even though disappointment can quickly fallow the excitement.

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voitstarr

I wish I could play my own pre-built deck in the league. if the AI gets hypnotoxics and stuff, why can't I?

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Evambivalence

Played through all of the trainers and gold-starred all 3 leagues, and had absolutely no fun. It was grinding, no other use of the word. Had to put on a show to watch every single time while I did it. You don't get to use a custom deck, and the decks you are given are terrible. Who builds a deck with 3-2-1 lines?? Who builds a deck with 2 supporters total?? Who builds a deck without a single EX?? All of this is even more maddening to an experienced player when you are put up against opponents who literally run a Darkrai EX on turn 1 followed by two Kyogre EXes sitting on the bench. Even using the Dragon Speed box, (which was the best I could find considering I could dragon call into two free retreating Garchomps each game) if I wasn't lucky enough to top draw into a "good" card, there was absolutely no way I could win. I actually would go games where I would draw 8 energy in a row while sacrificing basic 60 HP Pokemon, praying that something good luckily comes my way.

 

Who made this? Who played through it? It is maddening, a terrible idea, and as posted above - after opening up all 45 or so booster packs, I only got ONE EX card. It was a full-body art Reshiram. Well guess what... that card is awful. If I would have known that I'd get 100 Pikachus and 100 Vanillush and 100 Ratatta and ONE Reshiram EX, I would have NEVER gone through all of that time. At the end of a tournament, how bout you let me CHOOSE an EX. These cards have no actual "worth", they are all digital... so why keep acting like they do.

 

Overall, the trainer battles made me write the rant above. Not something I usually do, but I think that alone speaks for itself.

Edited by Evambivalence

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Moriatti

Just finished 4 starring the Gold, but I've played the entire challenge through on Expert.

I found that in general, I never wanted to switch from the Black and White Green, since it suffers the least from Pyramid Lines and Pokeflooding. (Though, 2 Town Maps? Silly.) It also has good early game stall vehicles in Wurmple and Watchog (infact, I found I NEVER switched Wurmple out) I didn't have anywhere near the issues described here, most of my matches hitting beween 5-7k. I did have to alternate to B&W Blue, and found that fairly playable as well, though it suffers from TOO MANY Pokemon just like the old Basic Blue did. At least it doesn't have 3 Stage 2 lines. I found that Milotic was good enough to beat any Fire Decks, then I can switch back to Basic Green.

 

I'd LOVE to be able to play Power Relay or Basic Yellow/Orange, and don't really get why those aren't options.

 

EDIT: So in short, I don't find the opponents too tough on Expert, sort of just right. I just wish there was the option to tweak the decks available to increase consistency.

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GR0

@Moriatti: Power Relay is playable in Trainer Challenge.

 

- Only use the new R/G/B decks to grind; their trainer lines are better (more consistency)

 

While you're definitely right about G and B, the new Basic R is terrible: the old one is much more consistent. The new one just doesn't flow.

 

Also, Basic B does have quite a noticable flaw that can make it unusable depending on one's luck (though more often than not, it IS better, unlike the R deck comparison): only 16 energy instead of 18. That's enough for real decks, but for theme decks that hardly have any card searching abilities, that means continuously crossing your fingers.

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yawu60

i dont know if anyone has covered this. But whenever you are facing a trainer. It is really easy if you try to use the type that they have a weakness to. You should be able to see their deck types and just counter that with the type of deck that will do well against that type. Sometimes there is no weakness, in which case you will have to do it the old fashioned way. If you do this and be smart about it you can easily average 5500 points per match. I've done this and easily beaten a trainer within 5-6 matches.( All on expert level)

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ToadKart
@Moriatti: Power Relay is playable in Trainer Challenge.

 

 

 

 

It's not for me.

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letour1902
I have to agree with Apophys_MD for the most part. All though I haven't pulled any EX's yet out of any of my free 30 packs, in fact I haven't pulled anything useful or worth while except for a foil Golurk and FA N, I'm not complaining because I know its all computer randomly generated and you can't expect an EX all the time, that just wouldn't be fair, it's not like you'll pull an EX in every pack you open in IRL, you're lucky if you get 1 out of booster box

Fa and secret rare are rarer than normal Ex and some pack does not have EX (pre-destiny one) so this normal to not have a lot of EX.. If you buy a Emerging power basic set I can be sure you will not have EX. :P Other EmergingPower, Bw and novel victory booster lower the chance of having Ex.

In daily gift, I keep getting in the daily gift Novel Victory so I know what I said.

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rileyy

now they added the PF packs, time to finish the TC!

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tootallmatt

I've had the same exact thing happen, resulting in a quick 2950 XP tho :)

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xPaYDaYx

i just started playing like a week ago guys, what are these "old" r/g/b decks you all speak of? when im in the trainer challenge i only have 3 decks, the b/w r/g/b

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